Lost in (parking) spaces
JimmyT | Jan 31, 2009 | Comments 25
Just when we think we’ve covered every possible angle on the vexed issue of parking, along comes another twist in the battle with residents who have more cars than they have spaces (or sense).
QUESTION: Each townhouse in our strata development has two undercover parking spots and room for one car on the road in front of each unit. New neighbours insist on parking one of their cars in front of my unit. I have politely asked if they would mind not parking there but have been totally ignored. Have owners and tenants any right to the space in front of their unit?
NFT, Central Coast
ANSWER: You’d have to go back to your Strata Plan to see what is yours, what is common property and how that common property is designated. The space in front of your unit may be designated visitor parking which could mean that, for instance, any visitors to any units could theoretically use it but no residents (including, possibly yourselves).
Or you might have an exclusive use clause which allows no one else but you and your visitors. So check the Strata Plan (which should have formed part of your sales contract) although that might just be where your problems start.
The problem in NSW is that, since motor cars must be protected regardless of the cost to communities, there is now very little strata owners can easily (or legally) do to stop selfish neighbours from parking their excess cars where they aren’t welcome.
We used to be able to clamp or tow but this was banned because, legend has it, a few years ago a former State Government Minister’s car was clamped while she was illegally parked outside her newsagent.
Another reader wrote recently to ask if the building manager of his new apartment was allowed to tow him away, at several hundred dollars expense, when he parked in the wrong spot. And the answer was yes – because this happened in Queensland where their restrictions on clamping and towing specifically allow it in strata buildings.
Would Flat Chat readers like Executive Committees to be allowed to clamp or tow illegal parkers? Write to us with your comments (and any other questions) at mail@flat-chat.com.au.
Filed Under: ARCHIVE
Comments (25)
NFT should either park his own vehicle at the front, or even park a trailer in the space in front of his townhouse.
We absolutely agree with the proposal in Flat Chat today that strata owners be permitted to have illegal vehicles towed or clamped.
There has to be some way of controlling illegally parked cars in apartment blocks. If you owned a house and someone parked in your driveway they are trespassing and can be dealt with by the law but it someone does that at an apartment block the law says that is OK, who was the ass that though that one up? Another PC jerk from the Office of Fair Trading no doubt. Can the NSW Government get it any more wrong? These people live in a dream world.
I have implemented a little vigilante law of my own and let down all the tyres of illegal parkers on their second offence (after a warning notice was placed on their windscreen the first time) and on the third offence filled their door locks with super glue, deeply gouged their windscreens and dinted a few doors and guess what, there has never been a case of a fourth offender.
Fed Up and Had Enough, if the law/government won’t help then take matters into your own hands, a little civil disobedience if you like, a home owners protest against stupid laws and the NSW Labor Government – RC. (Comment emailed)
JIMMYT WRITES: Hmmm. I don’t see what’s “PC” about our anti-resident, pro-developer strata laws. What RC is suggesting is vandalism, pure and simple. And even if it did seem justified, if someone drives off and has a serious crash after you’ve let down their tyres, illegal parking will be no defence when they come after you for culpable manslaughter. There are other, smarter ways to deal with this. Do a search for “parking” and you’ll find them.
I think this would be a wonderful idea. After trying to get recalcitrant owners and tenants to put their cars in their garages or in the street and leave the parking spaces for what they were intended – visitor parking only being sworn at and threatened with harm by an owner in one instance. In this case my executive committee refused to endorse the meeting necessary for the compliancy notice on the grounds that I may be hurt. In another, having eggs thrown on my balcony and a defamatory letter written to me by a tenant. I would appreciate the luxury of the executive committee having that power.
The ideal situation would be for the executive committee to be able to legally charge a fee for illegal parking which could be put into the Owners Corporation sinking fund.
This particular tenant also threw eggs on my balcony when I had the strata manager write a letter to her explaining that her child could not play on the common property unless he was in the company of a responsible adult. (Comment emailed)
Clamping or towing of illegally parked vehicles should be made available to Strata Committee ASAP. At our place (block of 32 units) recalcitrant drivers just ignore notices, and Strata Manager is doing his best to avoid taking any action.
Clamping/towing should definitely be allowed. Our block (35 apartments, 36-space garage and 6 visitor spaces) shares a communal area with another block (8 apartments, 8 garages and 4 visitor spaces), so that boom gates are not a realistic option. Our site is temptingly close to a bus/rail interchange. We have problems with lazy residents (mainly renting tenants) who can’t be bothered driving the extra distance into the garage; tenants, their floating populations of flatmates and houseguests; tenants, tradesmen and the occasional owner from the neighbouring block; “cuckoos” leaving their cars and making for the station; and even tradesmen working on sites down the street! The Executive (of which I am current Chairman) is vigilant and responsive, but notices and even letters from the managing agent often have little or no effect in the long term. We don’t want to be trigger-happy parking Nazis, but do want to be able to preserve these spaces for our own tradesmen, visiting carers for some frail elderly residents and the general run of visiting friends and family of residents who are paying for the facility. We should be able to clamp after a documented written warning, and tow for further offences. We should not have to go through a process of convening meetings of the Executive before doing so. It is not the proper role of the law to protect offenders from their victims.
In reply to your question in Saturday’s SMH, I would be very much in favour of executive committees being allowed to clamp or tow of illegal parkers.
We live in a large building in Potts Point and have continual problems with illegal parking in the forecourt of the building where we have the entrance to our carpark and a few 10 minute visitor parking spaces for emergencies, dropping off or deliveries.
Our owners’ corporation is currently taking steps to have boom gates installed as the parking is too difficult for the building staff to police. The boom gates will help, although they will inconvenience the residents to some extent and I predict we will still have problems with illegal parking to some extent.
It is bad enough that members of the public use our driveway as free public parking so they can go out to a restaurant or shopping and cars are left for hours or even days, but they often carelessly block the driveway or sometimes park in front of the exit doors from our carpark. I cannot believe that someone would be so stupid as to block the roller grill to the carpark but they do and they make it very difficult for residents entering and exiting.
I have witnessed members of the public tail-gating residents into the carpark to use the visitor parking at their convenience. We have also had residents or unknown people leaving vehicles and scooters in the carpark for long periods of time.
The current situation regarding clamping or towing makes it very difficult and time-consuming for our manager or owner’s corporation to take action to remove offending vehicles. The building manager needs to be able to take action immediately to remove the offending vehicle.
I enjoy your column and find it very informative. (By email)
In response to your question regarding whether executive committees should be allowed to clamp or tow illegal parkers I say ‘Bring it on!’
We seem to have no option available to deal with illegal parkers otherwise: if someone wants to park in front of my apartment garage on private property from now until doomsday, what are the options? The police won’t tow them. The council won’t tow them. Both will of course move vehicles if there is a ‘special event’ in the city, with no more thought than swatting a fly.
The only people who object to clamping are illegal parkers. We live near the old Children’s Hospital development in Camperdown (Trio). The builders who work at this site choke the streets and our visitor spaces (and no parking zones) with their cars six days a week and we are all fed up with them. Oh, except in the offending old Children’s Hospital complex where the developer has signs up ‘banning’ construction workers’ vehicles from the part of the complex that is already built. Pity the rest of us can’t have that. We do get the joy of these people arriving in our visitor car spaces at sunrise (so they don’t miss out on a space) so if we leave the building early we are treated to the sight of slumbering tradies in their various vehicles. It makes us feel like someone is staking out our home. We can’t stop them parking on public roads, but if they are in our visitor spaces and no parking zones – clamp them or tow them. I’m not picking on the builders – though here they are the worst offenders – but would clamp anyone who is in a space they are not entitled to. Who could object to that?
(By email)
Clamping/towing of illegally parked cars in unit visitor or allocated parking spaces should definitely be allowed. Sometimes that is the only deterrent, especially in the inner city. (By email)
We have 2 visitor parking spaces for a block of 9x 3b/r units. We live in a busy street in the Eastern suburbs which is often parked out.
When I attended my first AGM, I was warned not to park there by one of the resident ‘nutters’. We actually have two psychos in residence and while they do not park their cars in the visitor parking, their adult children who live with them do. This is apparently OK! I would love to be able to clamp/tow or instigate fines to deter this behaviour. Due the the unsocial nature of my 2 troublesome neighbours, the don’t have many visitor from what I’ve observed. We do however, and would like the spaces to be left for visitor parking as intended. Any suggestions?
JimmyT Writes: Ironically, it’s a lot easier when the culprits are chronic abusers of the system because you know who they are and where they live. You need to get the Executive Committee to agree that this is a breach and send out a Notice To Comply which carries with it the threat of a $550 fine. If your EC is too scared, they can ask the strata manager to do it. Either way, the nutters are then on notice that visitors parking is for visitors and not theirs to annex for themselves or their kids. If the EC refuses to do it, take them to Fair Trading and demand that they uphold the by-laws. It can be done!
The block of units I live in has 30 apartments, and 6 commercial units. We only have 6 visitors parking spaces. All units have one security parking space below the building. The commercial units have more than one security parking space each. However,employees of the commercial offices think they can park there all day which they are not supposed to, renters with 2 vehicles think they can park their second vehicle in the visitors parking area permanently, bad tempered old owners think they can park their second vehicle their permanently, and people with no connection to the building at all drive in and park there if by chance they find a space. Last week an elderly owner was very ill, and rang for her doctor. He could not find anywhere to park, either inside or outside the building, so drove off. We have contacted the police and of course received no help re the owners address or unit number. I think that anybody who elects to live in a unit with the current lack of interest shown by the government concerning the parking problem, and the installation of noise creating timber floors either floating or otherwise, is off their rocker. (By email)
We had just been discussing the problem of illegal parkers in our block and your article appeared in the weekend Domain.
Sometimes we have cars parked illegally on common property but lately we have had a problem with cars parked illegally in the Lot owners own carspaces (not common property). What recourse do owners have when this happens? At the moment the only thing we seem to be able to do is put the hard-to-remove ‘Illegal Parking’ sign on the window to warn them not to do it again – and wait for them to move. Is there anything else we can do? I had thought of parking them in, but risk an irate driver (of the illegally parked vehicle) letting down tyres or keying the side of my car, perhaps.
Will the RTA release details of the owner of a car to an Executive Committee or Strata Managing Agent in such a case? – Bev B (By email)
Jimmy T: No, I don’t think the RTA will provide that information and neither will the police. In fact, trying to get any of the authorities to pay any interest is an uphill struggle. While councils are relentlessly cutting down the number of car spaces in and around our cities – rightly or wrongly – it’s strata owners who are bearing the brunt. And, since we have to be punished for aberrant behaviour (like living in apartments) they are in no rush to do anything. Maybe we should organise a mass “Park-out” where we go and park in suburban driveways for the day. But we know what would happen – our cars would be trashed and we’d be to blame. Or perhaps we should all just quadruple park across Macquarie St until they run out of tow trucks. I reckon that’s what it will take to get anyone in Fair Trading to give this issue more than a moment’s attention. Regardless of who owns how many cars and where they live, this is probably the most common source of community anger and frustration in strata land and it undermines all our attempts to build communities. Why? Because a government minister years ago was clamped while illegally parked. Also the government can’t be bothered to find a way to discern between bikie gangs and legitimate tow truck operators. Anyway, elsewhere on this site are various articles that will tell you things that might help in your efforts to control rogue parking – just search for “parking” on the home page. But a simple remedy is to install collapsible bollards to which only the car space owner has the key. Of course, as usual in strata, the law-abiding citizen has to pay while the selfish scumbags get off scot-free.
I live in a small complex of townhouses. My neighbour only has one garage as do I. I park my car in the garage & as there is no designated visitor parking any guests to my home are very politely asked (by me) to please park in the street. My neighbour because they have two cars, a boat trailer and a boat have been parking the “excess” car on the common property every day. They also allow visitors to park on the common property – they just don’t get it. I’m not a “nutter” but I firmly believe everyone should have the same rights and firmly believe that it’s not my fault that they have more cars than parking spaces. It’s so frustrating to see that car parked there everyday – which blocks my turning circle to get out of my garage – as most you probably know there is barely enough room for a single car to get through in most complexes. I truly believe that cars should be clamped or towed – why do people living in a strata scheme have less rights… What gets me most is the attitude you cop when you ask them to move a car that shouldn’t be there in the first place! Anyway as I’ve just qualified as a registered nurse working working any number of shifts they had better get used to the sound of their door bell ringing at any hour of the day or night and being asked to move their car…
Thank you for the opportunity to comment on illegal parkers. We live in a Community complex consisting of five Stratas and illegal parking is a constant problem, not helped by the toothless tiger called the Office of Fair Trading. We have the ridiculous situation of residents of other Stratas parking illegally in our Strata. We have no avenue of redress as we cannot issue a Notice to Comply on residents of other Stratas. If Executive Committees of adjoining Stratas are reluctant to pursue the matter on our behalf we need other remedies.
GO THE CLAMPING AND TOWING! (By email)
I see no logical reason why an Executive Committee should not be allowed to clamp or tow an illegally parked car.
It is essential to be able to protect private property. I have faced the difficulty of not be able to park in my (exclusive) space or — just as bad — having my car blocked by illegal parkers.
To be fair, the should be clear signage and a processs of warning before towing (if cars are blocked to safety is an issue, than immediate towing should be allowed).
I cannot believe that Executive Committees in NSW are currently powerless to tow illegally parked cars — this makes no sense whatsoever! (By email)
I didn’t realize it was legal to clamp or tow in some other States and agree that it should be legal in NSW.Does anybody know if the problem is similar inter state?
Being able to legally threaten towing or clamping would I believe reduce the problem significantly.
Currently it takes so long to go through the process with Dept. of Fair Trade that most offenders are gone from the complex before they are officially served with a fine from DOFT.
Thank you for raising the much vexed issue of residential car parking in the inner city.
I own an apartment in a block of 12 in the inner west and am constantly confronted with unwanted vehicles parked in our car park at the front of our building. Yes, at times there are spare spaces as some residents do not own cars, but this is not an open invitation for people for our neighbours and the friends thereof, and people making use of the nearby train service, to park their cars there without permission. After all, the land in front of our property is PRIVATE PROPERTY. The police and local council have advised they cannot do anything about the situation, but if the offending vehicles are parked in the street they have jurisdiction to issue a fine.
It is unbelievable to think that it is illegal to park in someone’s driveway, but not so to park on strata property!
Dear Jimmy,
Thanks for publishing the issue of illegal parking in strata common areas.
Our strata has a variation on this theme. And we’d be interested in your opinion.
In a block of 30 units, each owner has two assigned car spaces. There are 6 visitor spaces.
One owner couple has three vehicles and so park the third vehicle in common property visitor space. These owners are thugs and have been involved in several acts of malicious damage within the complex. They also have been served other notices about other abuses of common property and thumbed their noses. The threat of the $550 fine is meaningless.
Given the history, the EC and OC (and the strata manager) are all apprehensive to raise the matter with them.
What we want to know is this. If the EC, OC or SM DON’T raise the matter with them (for fear of more reprisals), does the common property revert to ownership by the perpetrators by default, as in the legal notion that possession (of the common property) is 9/10 of the law. They would conceivably argue something like “you didn’t raise this with us, so it must have been OK, so it’s ours now”.
Do you know of any cases like this? If so, what were the outcomes?
JIMMYT writes: It’s a myth that possession is nine-tenths of anything so no need to worry on that front. But they do need at least one notice from your strata manager letting them know they can’t take up visitor parking just because it’s there. You may want to examine the possibility of getting a court order of some kind – for trespass, perhaps; if your neighbours defy that, it’s a criminal act and police can be called.
We had a problem with a neighbour parking infront of our unit and leaving their allocated parking space empty. we’ve got two cars, they’ve got one. I kept silent for about a week but was getting quite irate. When I couldn’t take it anymore, at night my brother and I ended up lifting and moving his car little by little and left it on the side of the rd. police were over the next day, nothing happend, they knew it us though. the asshole selfish prick didn’t open up his mouth and now parks in his own spot. Inconsiderate people need to be taught a lesson.
I am having the opposite problem of everyone else. Yesterday I went to visit somebody who lives in a strata block. When i returned to my car there was a notice on it saying “DO NOT PARK HERE AGAIN” and a letter supposedly from the strata manager saying I was parking on private property and that the parking was only for visitors.
I looked at the other cars parked in the visitor car spots and they also had the same notice on their cars.
So I called the strata manager and he said to ignore the notice as it was just somebody in the committee putting the notices on cars (even though his name was on the bottom of the letter).
By putting this notice on my car can they do anything if i go back to visit my friend and park in the visitors car park spot – given that i am a genuine visitor?? This is the first time I have ever parked my car there, and I find it offensive to receive a notice when I am a visitor. I understand that visitors parking is on private property, however I was not trespassing – as the letter implies. Can I do something to stop such a person putting things on my car as by touching my car aren’t they trespassing on my private property?
I guess I, unlike the other people on this thread, understand why clamping or towing is illegal because imagine if this person had clamped my car – they would be in huge strife as I am a genuine visitor.
JimmyT writes: I’m guessing the person who posted these notes was acting out of frustration because someone in that building was using visitor car spaces as a second parking spot for themselves, or people working in or visiting businesses nearby were grabbing whatever spaces were available, and the resident couldn’t tell which were valid and which weren’t. But at the end of the day it is just a piece of paper with no validity to you as a bona fide visitor. Rest assured, if they’d had the ability to clamp – and that won’t happen without a change in the law – it would require a lot more than a disgruntled resident on a mission before you or anyone else was fitted up with a “Denver boot”. By the way, your irritation at being “ticketed” is just the other side of the same coin: woefully inadequate laws that need urgent attention. Our politicians need to spend a bit less time with their noses in the developers’ troughs and a bit more time attending to their jobs which include passing laws that reflect the reality of life in Strataland.
I have a big issue with parking in the complex i live in. The garages aren’t big enough for the cars of many of the residents who live in the units. Also there is a big sign at the front of the building saying residents cars only.There are no marked bays and no visitor bays for our visitors to park in. Today we recieved a letter from the Strata warning us that if we continue to park on common property we will cop a $550 fine.This also only had the registration details of 3 of the 7 residents who park on common property .Since most of the street is unit blocks there is usually nowhere to safely park and usually if the car is left out overnight especially on a weekend many vehicles get damaged. So what are we supposed to do ???
JimmyT writes: This doesn’t have to be a source of conflict. The answer may be to sit down with your executive committee (or building manager) or attend one of their meetings and discuss your problems and any possible solutions. Rogue parking is not the answer to inadequate parking provsion but there may be a solution that nobody has thought of because nobody has asked them to.
We live in a strata block of 18 units. There is a block next to us also with 18 units and we share a driveway (it is a battle axe). Each unit has an allocated car spot for their exclusive use, and there are also visitor parking spots.
We’re having big issues with parking at the moment. The main culprit is a tradie who lives in or is renovating one of the units in my block. He has a garage as part of his lot however the garage is full of stuff (floor to ceiling of paint cans – but thats a whole other problem!) and has no room in the garage for his car. He therefore parks across his garage door (as well as across the garage door of the garage next to his). Sometimes he will park next to our bins (i secretly hope he leaves the car parked there on bin day and it gets damaged!) The spaces around the block are tight as it is, but it is very difficult to get past his car to the back of the building where the majority of the car spaces are located. Numerous times we have left notes on his windscreen, or politely spoken to him and asked him not to park there but he has made it quite clear that he doesnt care and is going to continue parking there.
Do we have any power as a strata to issue a fine to him?
Given his attitude every time we have spoken to him, we feel that he would probably ignore them any way. But can we issue a fine anyway?
We’re also havng problems with cars parking other cars in and cars parking in other people car spaces. We’re getting very fed up with it. There is plenty of room to park on the street but people are just too lazy to walk up the battle axe driveway. We also have other people who park stupidly, it seems to be consistant thing.
After that very longwinded whinge, I would absolutely support clamping or towing a vehicle that is illegally parked on common property. I think it would have to be one of those things where they get 1 or 2 warnings, and if they continue to park there then you clamp or tow.
I park my houseboat in our carpark, and I don’t give a stuff what anyone thinks. I’ll do whatever I want because I can and none of the old hags here would dare mess with me, because I’m their mate, and do odd jobs for them. It’s a trade off, you know, I’ll do something for you, but only if you do something for me. There has been a complaint or 2 frome some bitches but what are they gonna do? Get a life will you, sometimes you just can’t win!
The main question we need to ask is: how do we make it legal in NSW for Executive Committees to clamp or tow vehicles which are repeatedly parked incorrectly? Surely if so many owners in strata blocks acknowledge this is a problem, something can be done about it?
The 30 unit strata block I live in has 6 spaces for visitor parking which are always used by residents. At our recent Committee AGM, we discussed removing the visitor parking scheme altogether and renting out the spaces instead – adding the income to our sinking fund. The strata managers seem to think there will be problems with the council as the building’s development consent specified visitor parking. I am having trouble finding any precedent or whether it is even allowed. Surely if visitor parking is not being used for its intended purpose and clamping is not an option – why is leasing out the spaces not an option? Does anyone have any advice on this? Where should I go to find out?