Changes to Strata law won't help! | Another day in paradise | Flat Chat Forum
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Those of us who know what 'begs the question" really means are fighting a losing battle.
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JimmyT said:
PeterC said:
Just being pedantic, sorry. I think you will find none of the proprietors are 'disinterested', just that many are uninterested. The distinction is useful but we are losing it
Oh, Pete … next thing you'll be telling us the "begs the question" doesn't mean 'demands the inquiry'.
Well, since you mention it…
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No, it doesn't have to be the one issued with the agenda. Go HERE to download your own blank one and just fill in the SP number and photocopy it
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Whale, sorry, I don't mean to highjack your thread, but Jimmy's piece above about organising a coup is too good to let slip by so THANKS Jimmy, I hear what you say, but one more quick question please.
One can 'discover' the strata roll with names and addresses easily enough I'm told and write to owners, but does the accompanying proxy form need to be the one that goes out with the AGM agenda because then it'll probably be too late? Is there a generic, non-strata-plan-specific proxy form that could be used just for the one meeting, i.e. the AGM which won't be announced for a couple of months? (That's two questions.)
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Whilst I'm DISINTERESTED in the various responses to my original post – does anyone have any ideas about how the upcoming amendments to the SCMA could conceivably encourage inclusivity from Proprietors in the day-to-day operation of their Strata Plan?
Struggler's idea about some type of formal commitment to "Strata Living" (an existing Publication by the NSW Office of Fair Trading) by incoming Proprietors has merit.
Does anyone have any other suggestions, and ideas about how the State Government might be encouraged to consider those in the context of their upcoming review, and by a mechanism other than that currently being conducted on-line by their Consultants – Global Access Partners?
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In my complex we have 90% owner occupier. Just a handful a rented and it has been this way since day one. And also since day one we have had 90% of owners wanting no involvement in the day to day running of the complex save to complain at each and every AGM about the day to day running of the complex (but do not say anything through the year).
Over and over we find a problem in the complex that would be an OH&S issue that an owner will say "Oh yeah, I noticed 6 months ago that was broken/not working". Then there are the problems that exist within their units that they only mention at the AGM with "this problem has existed for over a year….." . Or worse "I have noticed this leak through the roof for 4 years now and this morning the ceiling collapsed". Not a word in those 4 years, and yet the EC doesn't do anything about fixing problems.
It's not once, it's not twice, it's not three time…the above scenarios have happened continuously throughout this complex's history. They buy into strata, they pay their fee and someone else has to look out for, arrange, notify and pay for absolutely everything. The EC should know what is wrong and what to fix! Without anyone telling them! Why should we have to go to the trouble of notifying anyone, we're not on the EC. And don't dare put those levies up!
When you buy an insurance policy they say you have to read the product disclosure statement and when you travel by air you have a condition of carriage that you are supposed to read. So you hand over your hand earned cash, but you have to abide by their rules, regulations and conditions. So why not in Strata? When you buy into it, you should have to read/sign a "statement of strata living" with all the information in it. And at the bottom have "I John Smith have read the terms and conditions of strata living and agree to abide by them". Will they really read it? Probably not. But at least there is something to wave in front on their faces when they complain about the problem that only they can see from their kitchen window, and that the EC hasn't fixed yet.
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PeterC said:
Just being pedantic, sorry. I think you will find none of the proprietors are 'disinterested', just that many are uninterested. The distinction is useful but we are losing it
Oh, Pete … next thing you'll be telling us the "begs the question" doesn't mean 'demands the inquiry'.
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Urban Spaceman said:
Suggestions on how to conduct a coup at May's AGM or sooner would be welcome.
The only way to organise an effective coup is to get the proxies. The only way to get the proxies is to convince the absentee owners that there is a problem that is affecting the value of their properties. That is a much more effective argument than silly old ideas like right and wrong and fairness.
So do some groundwork and find local sales that make recent sales in your building look bad. Get strata managers, lawyers and real estate agents to confirm that increasingly, badly and irrationally run buildings are losing value because people are looking very closely at the minutes of buildings before they buy because they don't want to be trapped in a dysfunctional building (and you can quote ME on that).
Then put all that in a brief and succinct letter to each owner, complete with a proxy form and a stamped addressed envelope, telling them that the value of their property is being harmed by bad management at an EC level.
Send them out in time for owners to respond but not for the incumbents to get their act together. If possible, phone some of the people and have a chat. Suggest they come to the AGM to see for themselves and if not, plead with them not to send a 'blind' proxy to the chair. They might think they're voting for stability – in fact they're voting for dysfunction.
Despite that DON'T get into personalities (as far as possible).
DON'T make it look like a grab for power – offer three or four alternative names for people to send their proxies to (and give them good reasons why they should choose the people you suggest).
Don't make any more fuss about anything before the AGM so the incumbents don't know what's afoot.
And, finally, be careful what you wish for…
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Whale said:
…I'm becoming increasingly sick and tired of disinterested Proprietors…
Just being pedantic, sorry. I think you will find none of the proprietors are
'disinterested', just that many are uninterested. The distinction is useful
but we are losing it
What gets good attendance for us at an AGM is a proposal to update
the colour scheme to whatever is currently trendy but bound to look dated
in a few years time.
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Whale said:
I get the feeling that this type of apathy is endemic within Owners Corporations, and so any changes to NSW Strata Legislation (SCMA) will be of little benefit to those of us who desperately want to see our Plans managed efficiently and inclusively. People like me can't do it on our own, even as benevolent dictators!
It could be worse, Whale, as it is at our block of 38. The Executive Committee is seven. The Treasurer has done illegal renos and special by-law is being drawn up to protect us; another member has built stuff in the common garden area outside his unit; the Secretary and Chairwoman do next-to-nothing, another is an absentee landlord who's unit is for sale; the other two are absolute passengers. They are all enabled by an unhealthy proxie situation.
On top of all that, the place looks quite run-down but 'Ya!', the coffers are healthy. So what are they going to do? Fix the place up? No! they are talking about reducing the levies!
(Suggestions on how to conduct a coup eat May's AGM or sooner would be welcome.)
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Those of you who have read my posts would know that I'm Secretary / Treasurer for our 27 Lot self-managed Plan, where 22 Lots are tenanted.
Frankly, I'm becoming increasingly sick and tired of disinterested Proprietors, who simply want no involvement with anything whatsoever to do with the management of their Plan, save opposing every increase in their Levy Contributions.
In fact, I only got the last two such increases passed (just) by using a combination of my proxies and a resolution to apply an early payment discount as an off-set, that I knew from past experience few would qualify for, and so the increase actually applied.
As the most recent example of collective disinterest, a couple of Absentee Proprietors (Landlords) want have the Owners Corporation make a minor addition to the Common Property.
So I go ahead and research what's available and where that item might best be positioned on / affixed to the Common Property, and then ask a couple of local Contractors to use my research as the basis for quotations to supply & install.
The quotes arrive, and even though both are less than $4K, the EC agrees, there are no spending restrictions in place, and we have a very healthy sinking fund (thanks to the "discount"), the proposed expenditure is discretionary and un-budgeted.
So as much out of courtesy as anything else, I wrote to every Proprietor with a request for comments, or at least a simple "yes" or "no".
Two weeks have passed and I've thus far received three responses, and two of those are from the original proponents!!
I get the feeling that this type of apathy is endemic within Owners Corporations, and so any changes to NSW Strata Legislation (SCMA) will be of little benefit to those of us who desperately want to see our Plans managed efficiently and inclusively. People like me can't do it on our own, even as benevolent dictators!
Our next AGM is in August, and I'm going to propose a whopping 30% increase in Levy Contributions – not that it's necessary, but rather just to get my Proprietors' attention, and hopefully their attendance at the Meeting!
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