if you do unit improvements do you compensate other unit owners? | Page 2 | Talkin' 'bout a renovation | Flat Chat Forum: Your Questions Answered




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if you do unit improvements do you compensate other unit owners?
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Flame Tree
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02/07/2018 - 1:22 pm
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Its definitely a better option if any common property damage is assessed and rectified under the commitees watch so you know independently what the scope of works is and that it is professionally corrected. Otherwise their DIY fix up might be poor quality, short lasting, not be safe, affect your building insurance, you wont know who did it or what exactly was done or have warrantee claim paperwork and it sets a poor precedent. You pay for it then get reimbursed by the offender.

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Libbylou
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02/07/2018 - 1:34 pm
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Thans JimmyT,

On the title, it says we have 244 units. But our apartment is 177 units, and the roof space to which we have exclusive use is 282 units. I’m not sure how 244 units was arrived at? But as you say, maybe it was no-one bothering to adjust them. But if that’s the case, why did’t the unit entitlements stay at 177 units? Could it to be with voting rights?

 

I’m sorry I’ve been confusing. I find the inconsistencies very confusing too.

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JimmyT
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02/07/2018 - 2:43 pm
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Do you have a car space attached to the lot?

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Libbylou
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02/07/2018 - 2:54 pm
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its included in the 177

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Lady Penelope
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02/07/2018 - 3:04 pm
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It is my understanding that only a right of ownership  will impact the unit entitlements. A grant of exclusive use is not a right of ownership.

As for needing council approval for the proposed  work …. I am pretty sure you would require council approval. You are changing the use of that space.

I personally think that your OC should not have approved your renovations to the roof area. It appears that you may be preparing to rent this space out being that you are creating a kitchen, bathroom, and an office that you are saying that you will use as a bedroom, and possibly make a profit from it. In my opinion this is not what the original  grant of exclusive use would ever have envisaged.

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Libbylou
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02/07/2018 - 3:15 pm
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Thanks Lady Penelope. We’re not going to rent the space out – we would stick to our word – and it’s a small block so it would be obvious if we were doing the wrong thing. I just posed the question whether it would be considered okay for family to stay over – but it’s a question that should be posed to strata. 

I wonder how we determine what the original grant of exclusive use would ever have envisaged? Do you think a grant of exclusive use is very specifically saying exclusive use of the space only, rather than also renovating/adding in any way?

Thank you again for your comments

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Lady Penelope
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02/07/2018 - 3:33 pm
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You might not have this intention but a subsequent purchaser may think differently.

Adding a second kitchen usually denotes an intention to create an additional dwelling. I don’t believe council will approve of this addition … even the addition of a ‘wet bar’ raises red flags with many councils.

I don’t believe that a grant of exclusive use would allow for this to occur. You do not own this space. The OC owns this space.

My thoughts are that if you undertake an activity that may be in breach of the Act or any other Act then you risk having your grant of exclusive use revoked.

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kaindub
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02/07/2018 - 6:53 pm
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Lillylou

I’ve watched this thread with some interest.

To me it seems that in the dim dark past some deal has been done with a former owner of your lot.

Before you proceed any further with your plans, I would find the meeting minutes where the exclusive use was granted.

I would then use this to formalise your exclusive use by getting a by law granted. The bylaw is the only means you have to enforce your rights.

For example, without a bylaw (which I understand you do not have now) any other lot owner would be able to enter the roof area and you would not be able to prevent them.

The bylaw giving you exclusive use entitles you to claim an ” ownership” of the roof area and prevent others trespassing on it.

You also need to be aware that exclusive use arrangements often come with a requirement to pay a rent to the OC. You are getting an ongoing benefit, but the OC only ever got one payment ( if it actually was made).

Your development almost certainly requires council approval. Since you do not own the roof space, it will be the OC making the application. Therefore it’s not just a case of getting a special resolution passed (75% passing the motion), you may need a unanimous resolution 

I think you have a difficult road to travel.

Robert

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Libbylou
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03/07/2018 - 8:47 am
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Thank you Kaindub – I’m bowled over by the advice freely and generously given on this forum. It’s all so practical and useful. thanks again

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JimmyT
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03/07/2018 - 1:30 pm
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From the very first posting on this thread, I had a feeling something was amiss.  It was the phrasing of the questions and their intent that seemed a bit “off” but I put that down to someone being unfamiliar with the subject or, indeed, the whole business of posting on a website.

It seems, Flatchatters, that my first instincts were correct: we’ve been had. 

In a personal message last night, Libbylou admitted that she wasn’t the owner of the apartment with the exclusive use of the roof, but was in fact one of the other owners in the building, wanting to know if she should support or reject the proposals.

In her defence, there was no malice in her deception: she claims she merely wanted an independent and objective opinion.

However, why she would go to such elaborate lengths to deceive the Forum, its editors and readers is beyond me.  This wasn’t one question, it was a continuing thread based on a fundamental lie that expected all the people who volunteer their time and expertise to give an honest assessment.

Anonymity is one of the fundamental principles of this Forum because it allows all of you to ask your questions without any fear of retribution from the people involved in your disputes. 

I police that rigorously and even change the screen names of newcomers who haven’t bothered to read the instruction not to use their real name or, especially, email address as their screen name.

I believe the ability to ask questions in complete confidence is one of the reasons we have recently clicked over 22,000 posts in more than 5000 different topics.

In her message, Libbylou also raised the issue of whether our answers were biased in favour of the questioners.  I suppose what she was saying was, do we tell people what they want to hear?

The answer to that (as you can see from the previous discussion) is a resounding “no”. We endeavour to give people the best advice we can and, when the situation is complex and/or the stakes are high, we strongly recommend they seek professional legal advice.

But even lawyers are more likely to tell you how to achieve what you want, rather than just rattle off what the law says and let you work it out for yourself. If you want to ask a question and get a blunt recitation of the law (plus a potentially suspect interpretation) contact Fair Trading.

So if we are guilty of anything, it’s that we offer advice that helps readers to achieve their aims – or modify their ambitions – within the parameters of the law. 

We have even given advice to Airbnb hosts, even though that organisation has been encouraging people to breach their planning laws and by-laws and is, in my opinion, a greater threat to apartment communities than dodgy developers, incompetent managers and bad neighbours, all rolled into one.

I was sorely tempted to delete the preceding discussion but, regardless of its origin, it has a lot of good information that may be helpful to other Flatchatters in similar situations.

Meanwhile – protected by our policy of anonymity – only Libbylou knows who she is and if she (if she is, in fact, a she) wants to come on here and apologise to you all, I’ll be happy to let her. 

Otherwise, I think we’ve heard more than enough from that quarter.

By the way, if you are wondering about the security of this website, I have Libbylou’s real email address and IP address on file from her registration.  But I would never reveal either unless it was something much, much more serious than telling fibs and pretending to be someone you aren’t.

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scotlandx
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03/07/2018 - 1:55 pm
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I thought that was the case, it didn’t make sense. I don’t mind, but being upfront is preferable.

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Libbylou
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03/07/2018 - 5:36 pm
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Dear JimmyT,

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to apologise to the Flat Chat community for my masquerade.

I am so sorry everyone, I really am. I honestly didn’t mean to offend, or show any disrespect. Please forgive me?

I truly, honestly did it to put myself in the shoes of the other person – the one with the exclusive-use access. My initial question was straightforward (about compensating other unit owners for renovations), but the thread quickly developed into more complex issues – and the responses have been incredibly helpful. So thank you all again.

But once I’d misled everyone about my identity, I was too ashamed to come clean… Until one of the contributors implied I was going to do something underhand, which was getting completely out of hand! So I privately messaged them to ‘fess up, explain my masquerade and ask for forgiveness – I understand they felt deceived and disappointed. But they dobbed on me – which hurts a little – but I do understand they had no choice in the interests of maintaining the high standards of a professional forum.

I give you my word of honour Flat Chatters that I will never displease the Flat Chat community again. And JimmyT, I guess as a positive, you’ve been able to use my bad example as a cautionary tale and an opportunity to reinforce Flat Chat’s impeccable modus operandi? I hope so. Please have me back?

With love, gratitude and contriteness,

Libbylou

PS I am female, but my name isn’t Libbylou (is it a little bit funny that you can have a fake name but not a fake identity? No disrespect intended! But JimmyT, you would find that slightly amusing, too?)

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JimmyT
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03/07/2018 - 6:15 pm
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Libbylou said
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to apologise to the Flat Chat community for my masquerade. 
I am so sorry everyone, I really am. I honestly didn’t mean to offend, or show any disrespect. Please forgive me?

Apology accepted.

I understand they felt deceived and disappointed. But they dobbed on me – which hurts a little – but I do understand they had no choice in the interests of maintaining the high standards of a professional forum.

The person you wrote to is one of our most highly regarded Stratagurus (that’s her official title) – one of only three trusted contributors who, for instance, get to approve other contributors’ posts.  She shouldn’t have to make moral decisions like having to “dob in” someone for anything but she felt her first loyalty, in this case,  was to the Forum and I applaud her for doing it.

… is it a little bit funny that you can have a fake name but not a fake identity?   

A fake name is just a form of identification so that we can recognise the participants in a discussion without needing to know their real names.  A fake identity is passing yourself of as something or someone that you’re not.

On reflection, this was pretty harmless – compared, for instance, to people in the past who have assumed several online identities then used them to gang up on posters with whom they disagreed. They were dealt with a lot more harshly than you.

It’s not the end of the world but it undermines the whole concept of a free and frank discussion if one participant is taking unfair advantage of the others’ trust. 

So, no, I’m afraid I don’t find it funny.  But lessons learned on all sides. 

I hope you can continue to enjoy the Forum and the website … as yourself.

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Libbylou
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03/07/2018 - 6:33 pm
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I understand JimmyT. And I understand the loyalty and trust issues. I really wasn’t intending to take unfair advantage of anyone’s trust – but in hindsight I understand how Stratagurus, and the others, may have felt. I am deeply apologetic. As you said, lessons learnt.

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