Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
  • Author
    Replies
  • #28237
    Lady Penelope
    Strataguru

      In my opinion the assessment of the NCAT decision was a bit harsh.

      NCAT can only decide matters that deal with issues directly arising from the SSMA2015 such as: by-laws; noise; nuisance etc.

      If the Act does not allow by-laws to ban a certain type of dealings of a Lot then NCAT can only work within the bounds of the legislation. It is not the duty of NCAT to change legislation. By-laws must be consistent with the Act. It is not within the power of the OC, under the current legislation, to make their own laws banning short term letting.

      NCAT does not have the jurisdiction to decide matters that deal with building classifications and regulations; zoning regulations; fire regulations etc. NB: It appears that these areas of the law were not raised by the OC in their submission. Had they been raised then NCAT could justifiably have recommended that these issues be more appropriately dealt with under the legislation that deals specifically with those areas of the law.

      Even so, an OC does not have the authority to enforce a council requirement. All it can do is  complain to council about the lack of compliance.

      Although the Meuller article referenced a WA Court of Appeal decision where a by-law prohibiting short term letting was upheld, the article made no reference to the many Qld decisions where by-laws prohibiting short term letting have not been upheld. All three states appear to have similar legislative provisions. 

      There are jurisdictions, other than NCAT, where short term letting restrictions may have a better chance of success for those seeking to control it and/or ban it.

      #28238
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        One issue in all this – a clue to the puzzle that’s missing – is the actual wording of the by-law that was overturned.

        If the by-law just said “we don’t allow short-term letting” then that is a straight-forward case of interfering with “dealing”.  

        If the by-law said something like, “we require all residents to abide by our residential-only zoning which does not allow short-term letting” then that is another matter entirely. Or it should be.

        Strata laws already state that you have to abide by the law and that includes zoning.  My building in Sydney, for instance, has zoning that is very specific about the minimum period for lets (three months).

        This is basis on which people bought into the building but, now that hipsters at City of Sydney have decided this law is no longer cool, it seems there may be no way of protecting our properties from rampant opportunism.

        As far as Queensland in concerned, the laws there were evolved to encourage investment in holiday letting in the first place.  Strata law there was created to assist developers and investors and not with a view to building communities, something that has been an afterthought (if it’s even been considered). 

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #28240
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster

          No sooner had I posted the last time than the actual by-law that was adopted and then overturned appeared in my inbox.

          It makes interesting reading and, in my non-legal opinion, tries to cover too many bases and in so doing leaves itself wide open to being overturned in this way.

          What do you reckon?

          Special By-law- Prohibiting Illegal Uses (Including Short Term lettings)

          (1) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that the lot is not used for any purpose that is prohibited by law or that requires approval or authorisation of an authority or under any law without that approval or authorization.

          (2) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that the lot is only used as a dwelling or domicile.

          (3) An owner or occupier of a lot must not engage in any commercial activity that involves the lot being used by its occupants on a short-term basis for less than thirty (30) days.

          (4) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that the lot is not used for any commercial purpose that involves the lot being used by its occupants on a short-term basis for less than thirty (30) days.

          (5) An owner of occupier of a lot must ensure that the lot is not advertised or promoted for any use whichis prohibited by this by-law.

          (6) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that the lot is not occupied by more persons than are allowed by law to occupy the lot.

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #28243
          Banned
          Blocked

            I think JT the ruling in this case is justifiable. The O/C didn’t do their homework and there was no real compelling evidence that there was any issues apart from somebody having a beer and using a washer, I mean really, what did they expect, If the OC was serious  you would think they would have at least hired a lawyer.  They can always appeal.

            #28250

            Jimmy,

            So, how did you come to receive a copy of the by-law as it wasn’t included in the tribunal determination/summary ?

             Also, is the by-law worded in such a way that it also prevents family/friends from ever staying there for less than 30days ? ie. both paid or unpaid would be prohibited.

            #28248
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster


              @pielover
              said:
              Jimmy,

              So, how did you come to receive a copy of the by-law as it wasn’t included in the tribunal determination/summary ?

              I never reveal my sources.

               Also, is the by-law worded in such a way that it also prevents family/friends from ever staying there for less than 30days ? ie. both paid or unpaid would be prohibited.

              I can’t see where it says or implies that.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #28249
              Lady Penelope
              Strataguru

                The short answer to the short term letting issue  – It lies with strengthening the local council regulations and zoning laws, and the enforcement of the regulations by the council itself. Councils could and/or should employ more people to enforce their own rules. 

                The long answer to JT’s question about what we reckon about the by-law that was recently deemed to be invalid – The by-law was doomed from the get go.

                One of the things that annoys me most about by-laws is that many are superfluous. Too many superfluous by-laws create a scenario where people avoid reading them. They end up being an expensive exercise that only lawyers benefit from.

                If an issue is already covered by another piece of legislation either in the SSMA2015 or another Act then why waste time, energy, and money repeating it in a by-law?

                The “invalid” by-law’s Items 1 and 6 are already covered in the strata Act so why re-state them?

                In Item 2 what does “dwelling” or “domicile” mean? These terms are not defined in the strata Act.  If there is no definition in the Act then the ordinary dictionary meaning should be used.

                A “dwelling” is defined as a structure where people live or sleep. The mere fact that people live or sleep in the structure for 3 months or 3 days does not prevent the structure from being a dwelling. The term “dwelling” in an Act is used to create a distinction between a structure that has bedrooms, kitchens and bathrooms (i.e. can be lived in) rather than a structure that is not used to live (i.e. does not have bedrooms – but it may or may not have a kitchenette and a bathroom). The distinction seems to be in the availability of a place to sleep.

                These structures are dwellings: a house, an apartment.

                These structures are not dwellings: an office, a garage, a shed, a factory.

                The by-law is rather confused as on one hand it states that the strata dwelling must only be a “domicile” (i.e. be a permanent place of abode) but at the same time it permits occupancies that are not permanent i.e. occupancies of greater than 30 days are permitted.

                A “domicile” is generally defined as a permanent home in taxation law. Incidentally, a domicile for tax purposes is usually a residence that is used by the person for longer than 183 days of the year.  This could mean that the dwelling could be tenanted for the remainder of the year and still be classified as a “domicile”.

                Items 3 and 4 refer to “Commercial activity” and “commercial purposes”. Whether an apartment is let for 3 days or 3 months or 3 years does not mean that it is being used for “commercial activity” or “commercial purposes”.

                Renting out an apartment is clearly permitted under strata law.  A tenancy of less than 3 months does not make it any more “commercial” than a tenancy of 3 months and 1 day.  It could be argued that longer tenancies are more “commercial” as the longer the tenancy the greater the rent that is paid.  

                Instead, “commercial purposes” usually means that owners are not permitted to use their apartments as shops or restaurants or openly trade from them to the public e.g. using an apartment as a massage parlour or a hair salon would be “commercial purposes”.

                Even if the owner of the unit was running a commercial enterprise involving the letting out of the unit, the people holidaying in the unit would be putting the unit to a residential rather than a commercial or industrial use. 

                JT said: Strata laws already state that you have to abide by the law and that includes zoning.  My building in Sydney, for instance, has zoning that is very specific about the minimum period for lets (three months).

                If a law already exists to ban letting that is less than 3 months then the issue is not with the law. The issue is with the enforcement of the law. The problem lies with the Sydney council.

                #28251
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  Couldn’t agree more, Lady P.  The by-law is a mish-mash trying to cover too many bases and ends up covering none.  I would have been very comfortable with the Member rejecting it because of its content rather than its intent.

                  So what next.  Is there a by-law out there that’s bullet-proof?

                  Or do we have to think about owners from a number of buildings suing their local councils in a class action for not enforcing their own laws?

                  Hmmm … now there’s a thought.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #28252
                  Lady Penelope
                  Strataguru

                    Mounting a class action against the council would definitely put the =^..^= among the (‘v’)

                    #28253

                    I queried : 

                    Also, is the by-law worded in such a way that it also prevents family/friends from ever staying there for less than 30days ? ie. both paid or unpaid would be prohibited.

                    Jimmy’s answer : I can’t see where it says or implies that.

                    Jimmy,

                    (4) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that the lot is not used for any commercial purpose that involves the lot being used by its occupants on a short-term basis for less than thirty (30) days.

                    May I suggest that the above clause could imply that, as it is ambiguous and pertains to any ‘occupant’. I know of strata lawyers who would readily argue that if any ‘payment’ is received to stay there, even by family members/relatives (ie. non-owners), then the stay/transaction becomes ‘commercial’. Wasn’t this something you raised earlier as a reasonable exception ie. family/friends are OK to stay short-term ?

                    Shouldn’t a by-law be unquestionably unambiguous, clear, concise, self-contained and not open to differing interpretations at the whim of the SC ?

                    #28254

                    My 2nd reply to Jimmy & Lady Penelope.

                    I enquired once with one of the Eastern Suburbs councils about dwelling, domicile, the council’s LEP etc and this was their reply :

                    In the town planning sense the question one must ask is: Is the premises being occupied cognate with its approved use a dwelling?

                    Ultimately the answer to this question, I think, is determined by how the premises is occupied and not necessarily by whom it is occupied by, and as such the two questions that are fundamental to this determination are:

                    1) Is the premises being used as a single household (see Blacktown City Council v Haddad [2012] NSWLEC 224 as to what is meant by the term: ‘single household’) ?

                    If the answer to this is “yes” then the next question is:

                    2) Does this occupation satisfy the degree of permanency of occupation that attaches to a dwelling or domicile (there are a number of legal cases that discuss this ‘critical’ aspect of dwelling usage which I think are instructive. Some of those cases you may be able to access on the NSW Caselaw website and are cited as follows: Dobrohotoff v Bennic [2013] NSWLEC 61Blacktown City Council v Haddad [2012] NSWLEC 224, City of Sydney Council v Waldorf Apartments Hotel Sydney Pty Ltd [2008] NSWLEC 97; (2008) 158 LGERA 67, Foster v Sutherland Shire Council [2001] NSWLEC 89; (2001) 115 LGERA 130, KJD York Management Services Pty Ltd v City of Sydney Council [2006] NSWLEC 218; (2006) 148 LGERA 117 to name a few).

                    If the answer to this question too is yes, than, in my opinion, the occupation of the premises is consistent with that of a dwelling.

                    #28255
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      pielover said
                      (4) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that the lot is not used for any commercial purpose that involves the lot being used by its occupants on a short-term basis for less than thirty (30) days.

                      May I suggest that the above clause could imply that, as it is ambiguous and pertains to any ‘occupant’. 

                      The Member (like various authorities across Australia) found that letting a unit on Airbnb wasn’t “commercial” so I doubt very much if allowing friends and family to stay there would fall under that clause, even if they were paying something for the privilege.  And yes, I would have a friends and family exclusion in the law (not a by-law).

                      Shouldn’t a by-law be unquestionably unambiguous, clear, concise, self-contained and not open to differing interpretations at the whim of the SC?  

                      Absolutely and that’s one of the many areas in which this one fails

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #28256
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster


                        @pielover
                        said:
                        If the answer to this question too is yes, than, in my opinion, the occupation of the premises is consistent with that of a dwelling.  

                        I’m sorry – what’s your point? The case you highlighted was one that established that a house used exclusively for holiday rentals was not technically a dwelling.

                        OK.  But the point of all this is that we know planning laws and zoning are being breached but the only people who can do anything about it – the councils – are doing nothing and the only people who want to do something about it – strata owners – are being prevented from doing so.

                        That’s it. Whatever legal definitions you come up with, our hands are tied while councils’ hand have their big fat bums on theirs.

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        #28259

                        Jimmy,

                        I was simply quoting the response from the council. The ‘ opinion ‘ was from the Council’s representative.

                        This was their rather convoluted response when the question of Airbnb short-term letting was put to them.

                        #28263
                        Lady Penelope
                        Strataguru

                          This issue is such a ‘hot potato’ that all those who should be responsible for it are ducking for cover and trying to place the responsibility for decision making on some other authority. 

                          Only the lower courts and tribunals have ever dealt with the short term letting issue (including the defining of terms) and even then there has not been much consistency. 

                          We are all going in circles here, and in doing so we are tying ourselves in knots.

                          It is apparent that By-laws can’t fix the problem. 

                          As it stands now it is councils who are responsible for making the zoning laws and enforcing the zoning laws. They are not doing so. Why not?

                        Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
                        • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.