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  • #54666
    Mailbox
    Flatchatter

    Can anyone please give me guidance as to what compensation I may be entitled to or rent reduction as a result of necessary bathroom retiling?

    We have a newborn baby in apartment and have had to move out for a few days due to dust and today waterproofing.

    Hope you can give me an idea of how to approach the property management/owner.

Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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  • #54757
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

    Jimmy-T wrote

    I’m still not 100 percent sure of the timeline here.  The tenants vacated early, you took them to NCAT, you lost there, Correct?  So you then, thereafter, you took the renovator to court and lost there?  Is that correct?

    Yes. Tenants vacated  several months before the lease expired. Under the lease they were to pay 6 weeks rent as the penalty for vacating early for any reason. I took them to NCAT seeking enforcement of the lease, by Mr Member allowed them to escape liability because he agreed with them that their ability to live and work in quiet, that is their “peaceful enjoyment”, was stripped from them and that it was the landlord’s job to ensure that their peace is not violated. Regardless of who violates it.

    I then applied to the Local Court, which heard the matter many months later, seeking the renovator reimburse me for my loss of rent as per the lease agreement i.e. 6 weeks. Of course the real loss to me was the time the premises sat empty: from the day the tenants vacated until the place was re-let. From memory it was nearly 6 months.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by .
    #54749
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

    Jimmy-T, I forgot to address one of your questions directly:

    I’m still not 100 percent sure of the timeline here.  The tenants vacated early, you took them to NCAT, you lost there, Correct?  So you then, thereafter, you took the renovator to court and lost there?  Is that correct?

    #54745
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

    Jimmy-T, I forgot to address one of your questions directly:

    You wrote:

    I had a horrible feeling you were going to say that. But just to be clear, for future reference, you lost the case at NCAT and then, thereafter, the local Court ignored the NCAT ruling? Is that correct?

    Tenants vacated early i.e. before the lease was up. I sued for them to pay me what they agreed to: 6 weeks rent if they vacate early for whatever reason. They did not want to pay, citing the noise and dust from the renovator made life very difficult. I took the renovator to the Local Court to reimburse me for the lost 6 wks rent. Of course by the time the case was heard, my premises were vacant for a few months after the 6 week period ended. His Honour felt that renovations are part of life and that I need not be compensated.

    So yes: At NCAT I lost my fight for the tenants to pay the above mentioned 6 weeks rent and at the Local Court, I lost the fight to have the profiteer (Mr Renovator) reimburse me the 6 wks out of the $305k he made.

     

     

     

    #54743
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

    Can anyone please give me guidance as to what compensation I may be entitled to or rent reduction as a result of necessary bathroom retiling? Hope you can give me an idea of how to approach the property management/owner.

    Just to get this back on track, you apply to the landlord either for a reduction of rent for the time you had to move  out OR reasonable compensation for the cost of staying elsewhere.

    If the landlord refuses, contact Tenants NSW or go to their website and you’ll find a lot of information there on the best way to proceed.

    #54741
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

    Kaindub wrote

    Where was the OC in regulating this renovator? Surely the approval of what seemed to be a major renovation should have come with conditions (hours of work, dust, noise, clean up etc). It would then be up to the OC to enforce this.

    Was approval by the renovator ever sought?

    In my case the renovator sought and rcvd approval for the works and worked regular business hours, making a lot of noise and dust as you would expect.

    A couple of weeks before  he started the renovation, BTW I was not told when he would start, one of the two tenants started working from home. The renovations meant she could not do so peacefully.

    My tenants were also bitter about not being able to sublet via Air B&B. “After all” they said, “who wants to live with the noise”? I reminded them that enriching themselves via subletting on Air B&B violates their NSW residential lease agreement. I had to go separately to NCAT to win that point.

    #54731
    kaindub
    Flatchatter

    The courts are able to award compensation when one can demonstrate a real loss. In the case of the renter having to move out and use other accommadation is a real loss. That usually means being able to present invoices, bills etc that the court can assess.

    Contrary to what we see from American TV shows , the courts do not usually award money for emotional losses, inconvenience etc etc (Unless you can demonstrate probably via medical reports otherwise that the event caused your “stress’)

    Where was the OC in regulating this renovator? Surely the approval of what seemed to be a major renovation should have come with conditions (hours of work, dust, noise, clean up etc). It would then be up to the OC to enforce this.

    Was approval by the renovator ever sought?

    #54729
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

    I asked the offending lot (who bought a unit, renovated, creating a lot of dust and noise in the process and then sold making over $300k) for compensation. He was not interested. I then took him to the Local Court and LOST.

    I had a horrible feeling you were going to say that.  But just to be clear, for future reference, you lost the case at NCAT and then, thereafter, the local Court ignored the NCAT ruling?  Is that correct?

    If so, it’s deeply disappointing but hardly surprising.  Even NCAT Members may have little grasp of the realities of strata living.  Local Magistrates, one can only assume, even less so.

    #54726
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

    Jimmy, I agree that a tenant has little sway (in many cases) over a landlord or the OC. But at NCAT as far as I have seen, tenants have a good deal of sway.

    You wrote:

    However, that NCAT ruling meant you had a figure to take to the other owner to demand compensation for your loss. A compensation figure that had been established at the Tribunal represents considerable leverage.

    I asked the offending lot (who bought a unit, renovated, creating a lot of dust and noise in the process and then sold making over $300k) for compensation. He was not interested.

    I then took him to the Local Court and LOST.

    His Honour found that renovations are to be expected in a modern city and that everyone just had to put up with it. I asked “why must I wear the cost of his renovation that forced me to compensate my tenant for the inconvenience of his renovations and the loss of rent resulting from my unit standing vacant as NCAT allowed the tenants to break the lease early without requiring to pay a break fee?  Surely an equitable solution is for the renovator to make a smaller profit by allowing for the impact he had on my tenants.

    I ended up giving the tenants compensation; unable to stop them vacating without a penalty and paying court costs.

    #54723
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

    If I may suggest, you need to spell out more facts if you want clear answers.

    One of the facts spelled out is that the Flatchatter is a tenant.

    You write “necessary” renovation. Why “necessary”?

    This is irrelevant.  For whatever rason, the unit owner conducted a renovation that made the unit effectively uninhabitable for several days.  That is the point of the question.

    Was there a problem with say the pipes in the wall, the damage caused to your bathroom needed repairs, if so that would therefore be an Owners’ Corp responsibility. Was it not “urgent”, but just cosmetic? And the owner wanted to do it now? If so, then it was not really “necessary”.

    Again, not really relevant.  The issue is between the tenant and the landlord, not the tenant and the owners corp.

    And of course there is my experience with NCAT: a neighbour renovated, caused my tenants problems (noise and dust), my tenants complained to NCAT seeking compensation FROM ME and they won.

    And that would be becasue it is your responsibility as a member of the Owners Corproation to make sure your tenants can either enjoy their rental properly or be compensated for it.  Tenants have very little power when it comes to dealing with other owners or the owners corproation.  That’s your responsibility.

    However, that NCAT ruling meant you had a figure to take to the other owner to demand compensation for your loss. A compensation figure that had been established at the Tribunal represents considerable leverage.

    #54717
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

    If I may suggest, you need to spell out more facts if you want clear answers.

    You write “necessary” renovation. Why “necessary”?

    Was there a problem with say the pipes in the wall, the damage caused to your bathroom needed repairs, if so that would therefore be an Owners’ Corp responsibility.

    Was it not “urgent”, but just cosmetic? And the owner wanted to do it now? If so, then it was not really “necessary”.

    Kaindub is right about going to NCAT as an option. But there are several unknowns. For instance, if you want compensation, your current rent may be considered by NCAT. If say you’re paying a low rent, then NCAT may not rush to compensate you even if you were inconvenienced. Or they could order a refund to you for the days you could not use the apartment. Alternatively, if the renovation is cosmetic and will enhance your enjoyment of the premises (once finished) and the landlord is not jacking your rent up as a consequence of the renovation then NCAT may dismiss your case altogether.

    And of course there is my experience with NCAT: a neighbour renovated, caused my tenants problems (noise and dust), my tenants complained to NCAT seeking compensation FROM ME and they won.

    #54703
    kaindub
    Flatchatter

    It sounds like you’re a renter.

    You need to approach the owner or property manager

    A fair compensation would be reduction of rent whilst you are unable to live there. You could try your luck in asking for the cost of alternate accomadation as well, but its unlikely you would get both.

    if the owner wont agree to any of this, go to NCAT and seek compensation . Its highly likely they would grant it as it seems that the tiling was at the owners request (or maybe the strata but that does not matter)

    The owner can fight it out with the strata for any compensation they had to pay.

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