Flat Chat Forum NCAT – the NSW Tribunal Current Page

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  • #50477
    AvatarTom
    Flatchatter

    Hello,

    We just had our AGM. Our agent informed us several days ago that they will not continue their contract with us. We have thirty days. The committee is run by three members who are reluctant to approve any works. It gets worst but I’m sure you have heard it all before.

    I want to lodge an application to have a Compulsory Agent. Our current agent informed me that they are not qualified and that only a few agents are. Does anyone know how I can find agents that can be Compulsory Strata Agents?

    Thanks

    • This topic was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by .
Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • #52996
    AvatarNo To Compulsory
    Flatchatter

    Compulsory is like giving Dracula the key to the blood bank.

    Once they entrance them self it is hard work to remove them its all about money at the end.

    Once they have owners corporation power due to compulsory appointment they will used owners corporation to suit their cause.

    They will hire a lawyer of their choice to benefit their own and their affiliation at owners expenses.

    Our Strata Company choose the same lawyers, we found more than 60 Invoice from the same lawyer and seem quite close to them with in their short compulsory appointment.

    Would you trust to give someone you don’t know a key to your house and pretty much what they can get away with in their legal ways!!

    There is little to no chance any compulsory will do the right things by owners by owners.

    Our Strata Company charged us $50,000 for photocopying, they love large complex as another mention above it is a lucrative business model for strata company.

    Good Luck I say NO to compulsory for sure.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by .
    #52997
    AvatarNo To Compulsory
    Flatchatter

    Yes they can increase or decrease levy to their liking, most likely the case is increase.

    They have the power of owners corporation.

    They can hire a strata lawyer of their choosing who owners hope is ethical.

    The system is there to be abuse with the wrong unethical strata company at the helm.

    #52128
    AvatarDarnell
    Flatchatter

    Thanks, Jimmy for Amanda’s link. It’s very good. I’ve had to take the draconian measure and file under 237. However, I haven’t secured a compulsory managing agent. I will speak with StrataChoice tomorrow, but, in the meantime, has anyone had any positive experiences with compulsory strata managers? I’m based in Sydney. Desperately seeking an ethicalManaging Agent that is experienced and can bring order to the deeply entrenched self-interest within our current set-up. And, I’m on a tight deadline, as I filed with the Tribunal today, not realising I had to put forward the details of a managing agent who agreed to a compulsory appointment.

    NB:  If responding to this, probably best to use the “send a message” button on the left so you can be as forthright as you wish. JimmyT

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by .
    #52043
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    If anyone is following this, you have until midnight tonight (Sep 20) to access a fascinating breakdown of what you need (and need to avoid) to get compulsory management. You’ll need to register (for free) for Amanda Farmer’s Shared Space Summit (even though it’s “over”), then look for the final session on dysfunctional strata schemes in which Amanda goes into this in detail.

    For her members, the session will be available in her “members only” section from tomorrow onwards and if you want to chase that up, you can become a member of Your Strata Property here .

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by .
    #51943
    AvatarTom
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    Hey Guys,

    Just an update on where things are at. It’s quite a process. We have had our directionals hearing and have a hearing date in November. NCAT referred me to lawyers in Marrickville who gave some input for free. That was very helpful.

    It’s not very clear how much evidence you need to gather for these things but a lawyer friend of mine told me to put together a timeline of events that can be referred to which I did. Having clear reasons for seeking the appointment was another and the timeline is there in case you need to show a series of events that link to evidence such as emails within an annexure. The timeline really helped uncover things I had forgotten or had not seen previously.

    I really did not want to go this route but it’s just very obvious nothing will get done. One of the owners indicated he will be moving and things will probably get repaired once he leaves. Another owner told me the same and said I should wait before pursuing matters.  I called around and spoke to about 8 managers who do offer compulsory appointments. One of them actually said its something they like to do as it’s quite lucrative. I was quite shocked by that.

    The new agent who was signed on said during the EGM he was getting worried and may not be able to represent us if they didn’t seem to be making decisions. It’s very unfortunate. I’m about 30 years younger than most of the owners in this small complex and for the most part seen as a trouble maker as I’m asking for the buildings to be inspected.

    They really are completely clueless about their responsibility to each other’s common property. It’s like watching a train about to crash and nobody is trying to stop the train.  We have about $40K in confirmed damage and in two years’ time, we need $20,000 to paint the complex. My ultimate goal is to get everything done so they have no decisions to make.

    It’s so incredibly political and completely toxic and logic is completely gone because it has gotten so personal. They do not want to meet and discuss and plan prior to AGM’s & EGM’s and are constantly confused during the meetings because they didn’t prepare in advance.

    During the meetings they ask for more quotes and more information and then we wait another 6 months and again nothing is determined. For these reasons and many more, I think compulsory is the only way to go in this case. Just hope the hours I put into this NCAT documentation don’t go to waste.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by .
    #51938
    Avatarnewlsie
    Flatchatter

    Please don’t apply for Compulsory Strata Management.   Most of the good strata managers will not take on Compulsory Strata Management.  We have had a terrible experience.

    #51937
    Avatarnewlsie
    Flatchatter

    Chercheuse,

    We have been under a CSM for 20 months.  In the first month the CSM raised our levies 14%.  Despite promising to keep our good suppliers they were fired and replaced with others and in the case of our cleaners sub standard.  We had a million dollars in the sinking fund going in and after massive bungling with a window project I fear we have lost at least half of that if not more – we don’t have the figures yet and I fear we won’t know until the CSM is over. Schedule B fees are 95% more than what the previous SM charged, in fact they are more than double his annual management fee.  This is a very draconian system and if anyone is interested PM me.  We have to lobby government for changes in the Act.

    #51905
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    does anyone know if a compulsory strata manager can set levy amount? I found the following statement

    A compulsorily appointed strata manager (CSM) can do anything the terms of their appointment permits.  In most cases this includes drawing up a budget and setting the levies to finance it.

    They are different from a regular strata manager who has to do what the strata owners want (within legal bounds). In the case of compulsory or statutory appointment, the owners have to do what the strata manager wants.

    Seeking the appointment of a CSM is the Nuclear option and if you are ever considering it, you and the other owners with whom you are in dispute (assuming you are in a dysfunctional strata scheme) need to know that for at least a year and probably two, you will lose the right to manage your own strata affairs.

    That means the CSM can order work to be done by their choice of tradies at their agreed costs.  That’s why some tradies say that having a good relationship with CSMs is a licence to print money.

    #51903
    Avatarchercheuse
    Flatchatter

    does anyone know if a compulsory strata manager can set levy amount?

    I found the following statement:

    “nothing in the strata law or ncat order gives the strata manager to set levies, only the owners can do this at an AGM, therefore them attempting to set levies for years prior to their appointment, and indeed after their appointment but before an AGM is illegal and invalid.”

    The compulsory strata manager in my case has set a levy, no evidence of an AGM held except by manager only in attendance

    #51038
    Avatarnewlsie
    Flatchatter

    My personal opinion is to get in a mediator.  Pay him / her to educate the owners and solve the problems.  We have a compulsory strata manager and the division between the owners is greater than it was before NCAT decided who would manage us.

    #51037
    Avatarnewlsie
    Flatchatter

    People, please, please, please avoid at all costs a compulsory strata manager.  In my opinion the number of good news stories is very low.  We are in the midst of a 2 year CSM.   Decisions have been made that are not in the best interests of all the owners, tens of thousands of dollars have been spent on legal fees.  Owners have applied for mediation which has been denied by the compulsory strata manager thereby forcing an application to NCAT which is very expensive so most people give up.  The ‘good’ strata managers will generally not accept a CSM because it signals trouble ahead. Please think twice before you go down this very draconian path.

    #50577
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    The fact that strata could make money off of the repairs is a scary thought.

    By “strata” I assume you mean the strata manager here.  Be careful with your terminology as that could trip you up in an NCAT case.  There’s strata managing agent (strata manager), strata committee and strata scheme … all different.

    You might do well to get some initial advice from one of our sponsors, like Strata Answers or Sachs Gerache lawyers, or someone more local to you.

    #50573
    AvatarTom
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    Thanks. Yes, I’ll try not to focus on the politics and instead on the main issues. Most of the repairs have been deferred and our funds are not where they are supposed to be.

    It is scary to venture this way. I have asked twice to meet to plan for the repairs with no response. The fact that strata could make money off of the repairs is a scary thought. I’m hoping it’s possible to limit their power when applying.

    Thanks

    Chris

     

     

    #50570
    Avatarkaindub
    Flatchatter

    Tom

    from your last post I understand why your last strata manager resigned or quit

    When the committee/owners flagrantly breach the law and the responsibilities to the OC it can sometimes become an untenable situation for the strata manager. they are caught between serving their master, the OC, and ensuirng the OC complies with the act.

    Whilst Jimmy makes a good warning about compulsory strata managers, i think in your case a little pain may be required by you to get the OC back into line.

    From what you describe it seems that there is ingrained bad habits within owners and the committee which are unlikely to change unless the big stick is wielded.

    The pain may be for two years, but in that time, as Jimmy points out, things will be done by the book. Maybe in that time the incalcitrants will see that the jig is up and move on.

    #50568
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    A word of caution – pick the wrong strata manager as a compulsory appointment and you will regret it.  In most cases, the compulsory manager takes over the whole running of the block – the committee and owners have ZERO say over repairs, budgets and levies.  Many strata managers will run the building (usually for two years) precisely by the book and that means no leeway on anything.  Some, it has been reported, have their favoured tradies to do work for inflated prices and there is NOTHING you or your neighbours can do to prevent it until the compulsory period runs out.

    As a final gambit, I would explain to your neighbours that the running of the building has become so untenable that you are considering applying for compulsory management, spelling out exactly what that means. Otherwise, they can elect a new committee, select a new manager and start getting the building in shape.

    If you do go for compulsory management, find someone with whom you can work and they will advise you on the information you need.  But generally is should be evidence of demonstrable breaches of the Act such as failure to maintain and repair common property, failure to pursue unpaid levies etc etc.  Complaints about politicking or personal disputes will butter no parsnips at NCAT.

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