Flat Chat Forum Neighbour noise Current Page

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  • #50735
    AvatarJoe50
    Flatchatter

     

    hi everyone ,

    im In NSW and am putting up with a lazy landlord/lazy real estate agent who are basically lying to me and fudging me off hoping I go away.  I made a noise complaint about there tenants , and the landlord via the real Estate agent said they have a handyman coming and will put pads on the cubbards etc , and from now on not contact them and talk to the strata and building manager about noise etc.

    Blah Blah, I then say okay can you confirm what date this handyman will be coming and I want the landlord to Agree to show me proof of receipts that work has been carried out and can you email me a copy of proof of receipts when work has been carried out.

    Three days later , surprise surprise no email reply agreeing to my fair terms. Which says to me, the owner won’t spend any money on handyman unless he is forced to by a legal body eg Fair trading. As he hasn’t emailed me back agreeing to tell me the dates of this so called handyman coming and receipts.

    I feel like also being in attendance watching the handyman carry out this work , but he will fudge away from that(there is no security threat To the tenants me watching the handyman put pads in etc). Just time wasting stalling tactics by the landlord hoping I just go away and adapt to the noise from door slams above.

    Very frustrating when you try and be co-operative only to be fed lies and stalling tactics. So fair trading it is, and NCAT if possible. I feel like suing the owner above for pain and suffering eg time wasted doing all this…

    • This topic was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by .
Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
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  • #51827
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    The by-laws are less significant but they aren’t insignificant. They work, or should work, hand in hand.  If your by-laws demand a certain level of noise insulation in your flooring and the law demands that reseidents don’t be disturbed, the Tribunal has an easy avenue for resolution (Muppetry notwithstanding).

    The significance of by-laws is that they deal with local conditions in a detailed way that can’t be dictated by state laws.  So it’s not one or the other, except where the by-laws of the building are clearly unfair or inadequate.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by .
    #51824
    AvatarJoe50
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    And when at NCAT is the relevant thing with noise from another Lot(where landlord owner is responsible) , the SP By laws or the NSW strata schemes Act sections and orders Eg 232.
    I didn’t think SP by-laws in such circumstances where important, but rather NSW legislation as that overrides any SP By-Laws I thought…

    #51820
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    I’m going to take a punt here and say it is the landlord that you need to take action against becasue, theoritically, they can address the problem by:

    1) telling the tenants to behave or they will be in breach of the by-laws and could be evicted:

    or

    2) properly insulating the floor

    or

    3) both.

    You could go after the tenants but then you’d have to prove that they were behaving unreasonably.

    So go after the fact that there is too much noise and let NCAT  decide what the cause is.

     

    #51815
    AvatarJoe50
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    I will find out if other noise complaints when preparing my NCAT submission. I have a feeling no as I’m the unit below and have been here for over ten yrs, and strata rolls and strata agencies have changed in that time..

    But now I’m a bit confused who to take to NCAT. As it’s noise from cubbards doors transmitting down into my unit, that I assume would be going through the ceiling wall. Would I be taking the owner of the lot or would I have to take the OC to NCAT? The door slams from the cubbard doors transmit down into my apartment… What I am seeking ultimately is soundproofing of the ceiling walls(my ceiling wall) as the noise is travelling into my apartment. There is no carpet underlay on the floors of there bedroom, I suspect it’s wood as the lounge room in the neighbour above is wood floor.

    #51689
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    Add to that, statutory declarations (signed and notarised) from friends and neighbours who will say on oath that the noise is intrusive, plus any correspondence from the owners corproation records that suggest there have been complaints in the past.

    #51686
    Avatarkaindub
    Flatchatter

    Joe 50

    When you go to NCAT you need to be armed as follows

    1) The law or bylaw that is being broken. Courts don’t adjudicate on grievances alone.

    2) You will need your own noise report carried out by a recognised professional (an acoustic engineer) . Again the courts are loathe to entertain arguments that its noisy. As an earlier email said, noise is subjective. get your report together; spend the bucks.

    (the court may award you your costs if you win, but its not guaranteed, and you never recover all your costs – you will be out of pocket)

    Its up to you as the plaintiff to prove your case; the other party is entitled to argue otherwise, but in the court you go first.

    #51673
    AvatarJoe50
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    August Update(NSW):

    The noise has continued and endless email table tennis between me and Neighbour real estate agent.

    The owner of neighbouring lot has refused mediation at fair trading with me. So NCAT it is I’m applying for.

    ideally, the order I want is for the neighbouring owner to be ordered to put better carpet underlays under the bedroom carpets(this will require uplifting the carpet/removing current underlays/getting accoustic consultant to do a tap test/then put new accoustically better underlays/and new carpet maybe)..

    I hope I win at NCAT, as the noise transmitted into my apartment is unacceptable.

    #51150
    AvatarJoe50
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    Agree with all that. And yes fair trading and maybe NCAT seem the only viable solutions as the noise hasn’t improved…

    #50943
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    As much as I loathe the “this is an issue between two residents” excuse for the owners corp not getting involved, I suspect this is one of those rare cases where that’s valid.

    It seems like common property is not involved and it’s hard to divine what by-law has been breached.

    That’s not to to say you don’t have a case, just that the owners corp doesn’t really have a dog in this fight.

    The positive aspect from your point of view is that it has previously been established in a NSW court that the landlord has a responsibility for the behaviour of their tenants.

    Record the door slamming, then present Fair Trading and NCAT (if it ever gets that far) with the evidence.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by .
    #50921
    AvatarJoe50
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    Weekend Update July 11th-12th:

    I’ve had an update on from both my strata/and the Real Estate Agent of the landlord(this matter is NSW):

    The strata said internal noise is an internal issues(internal doors eg bedroom cubbards/toiet doors etc), and they will only mediate with “Noise matters concerning” common property eg swimming pool/or balcony noise/car park noise etc).

    They said for internal door noise, “Noise is subjective” and it’s a matter between you vs the neighbouring owner/and owner’s tenants..

    The real estate agent after much persistence to get an answer has informed me last night that there client(owner of the neighbouring) will not be voluntary make any accoustic adjutments to the unit and will not enter into any voluntary legally binding agreements about making acocustic adjustments and as Lot owner being liable to cover those accoustic adjustments eg underlays/accoustic consultant tests/door seals etc.

    And they will not message the tenant about a complaint about noise or a breach of the residenantial tenancy act/strata management act etc eg noise/nusiance/peaceful enjoyment.. And if I wanted to take Legal action against both landlord/tenant, that’s up to me but nothing about this Noise matter will be voluntary agreed on..

    I had a feeling that would be there response as they have dragged my complaint out for about 6 weeks..

    So when parties act like that, you have no choice and Im gonna have to get “Lawyered up” and spend money taking legal action eg NSW Fair trading/NCAT/ and even court.. And I hope I win, but it will be a long and bitter dispute I have a hunch and potentially expensive for the losing party eg underlays aren’t cheap nor are accosutic consultants fees/tradies fees/or Legal fees etc..

    I feel like I am now playing the role of the “Hunter” and the “Landlord/Tenant” is playing the role of the Hunted and they will do everything they can to stop me from being legally successful over there them eg delay tactics/no interest in volunary mediation/put up stern resistence to voluntary spend thousands of dollars depite being the liable party etc..

    I’ve red some cases over the weekend about apartment building noise disputes and all I see is time consuming problem costs$$ , especially the losing party eg legal fees(and sometimes ordered to pay the legal fees of the complaining neighbour)/costs to pay accoustic consultants/and costs to put in noise reduction stuff eg underlays and other accosutic stuff.

    Joe50

     

    #50895
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    NSW fairtrading is not a court. You can’t approach them to solve your issue. You need to approach NCAT.

    Just to be clear, Fair Trading is not a court, true, but it can resolve issues by  mediating an agreement between two parties to find a mutually agreeable resolution.

    Critically, in most circumstances you have to apply for mediation at Fair Trading before you can apply for orders at NCAT. An individual owner seeking orders against another owner or their tenants (under section 153) would definitely require an application for and attempt at mediation which you would have to attend although the respondents can choose not to.

    As Kaindub said, this is not a court, however attempted mediation is a necessary prerequisite for seeking orders at NCAT (in most circumstances).

    The section cited for taking your strata committee to NCAT for failure to act is section 232 (2).

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by .
    #50893
    Avatarkaindub
    Flatchatter

    Joe50

    I understand your frustration with the situation and the people involved. However as someone else pointed out demanding things to be done will only make it the other party try to frustrate you further.

    Sure you have a right to peaceful enjoyment, but you are the complainant not the police nor the court. Its only the courts who can  “Make” people do  something.

    If it’s a breach of a bylaw, ask the Owners Corporation to issue a breach notice to the tenant with a  copy to the landlord. You will need to provide specific details of when these Breaches occurred. The breach notice is framed that way. If the OC refuses to issue the notice, you need to ask as to why. If it’s a lack of will on their part, then you can take the OC to the tribunal and site section 132 cite section 232(2), failure to act, and the  ourt will make the OC issue the breach notice.

    NSW fairtrading is not a court. You can’t approach them to solve your issue.  You need to approach NCAT. But be certain of what law you want to tackle the other party on. The courts don’t settle on moral grounds but rather in the law as written. Depending on which laws you  claim have been broken, the court may recommand mediation. In cases of strata law that is usually the case.

    If you want to try an informal  mediation, the apply to your lo so Community Justice Centre.  They can try to arrange mediation, but the other party is not obliged to accept.

    You need to be prepared to play the long game here. If the troublemaker ignores your requests, then the legal route may be your only option. But be aware that it can get expensive if for example the other party engages lawyers to defend themselves. You stand little chance in a court running your own case against a lawyer (just because of the processes in  courts).

    And the legal route will take sometime. Due to Covid 19 the  courts at the moment are only hearing urgent cases, and there is a large backlog to work through when the  courts fully open. Don’t expect  to be in a court till next year.

    Maybe a more humble approach to the tenant/landlord will get them to reconsider your requests in the meantime.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by .
    #50885
    AvatarJoe50
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    nugellbags,

    what you on about no moral or legal obligation, and saying demand reciepts not gonna help. Excess noise is coming from the apartment, and breaching  by laws and disrupting my peaceful enjoyment.

    And they lied about getting work done, I gave them one week and they still were inactive to fix it, this on top of two weeks before a new tenant. Of course i have  right to verify if reciepts are there as they made a promise and lied to fob me off..

    I’ve now applied to NSW fair trading for mediation. The owner has zero interest to spend money on accoustic adjustments or tell his cash cow “the tenants$” to stop slamming doors as they don’t want to upset there cash cow the tenants.

    Of course neighbours have a right to complain about door noise. And as for inspections and reciepts, why wouldn’t i as i don’t trust that Lot owner who has lied and has no intention to do anything voluntarily no matter what I do.

    And the real estate is totally on the side of there cash cows the tenant and the landlord, as the landlord pays money to his real estate agent. The real estate agent has no interest in playing peacemaker, more like a trade union rep and 100% supporter of the landlord who is paying money to the real estate agency, as opposed to neighbours who are not giving money to the real estate agent.

    The owner has no interest to make accoustic adjustments and spend his own money unless I take successful legal action against him.. He is uncooperative and not helpful and has no interest in volunatary mediation..

    Just interested in taking money from the tenant and won’t rock the boat asking the tenant to stop slamming doors and breaching noise by laws while me the neighbour has to suffer from the noise problems.

    David NG, you can’t breach noise by laws the end. eg door slamming is not acceptable..

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by .
    #50873
    Avatarnugalbags
    Flatchatter

    “asking what day will this happen and can I see reciepts.” The Lot Owner above has no moral or legal obligation to allow you access, notify you when works will be undertaken, or show you receipts. I don’t know why you think this is reasonable. I would consider this request quite rude and aggressive. It is exactly because of your actions to date that they are now ignoring you.

    Additionally your OP is not clear what the noise issue is. Is it that they ‘slam’ cupboard doors? or front door? Maybe pump the hate breaks and instead if insisting “something be done” ASAP and threatening legal recourse; go and have a polite chat with you neighbours. Tell them its disturbing you and you would be terribly appreciative if they could not slam the doors; and hand them a $5 packet of rubber or foam door pads from Bunnings. 99% of people, if an issue is made known to them (cause I can guarantee they dont know its annoying you), asked nicely, will do the right thing.

    #50818
    AvatarDavid Ng
    Flatchatter

    At the end of the day the only thing you’re allowed to ask for is for the noise to cease in a reasonable time frame.

    Nothing else.

    If I was the tenant or landlord I would be afraid of you and very quickly ask the OC to manage your complaint.

    The tenant has the right to “quiet enjoyment” of their residence and it may be argued that you’re not allowing them to have that quiet enjoyment.

    Look at it from their perspective; how would you react if someone demanded they be allowed to inspect your residence, watch tradespeople do work and then examine the receipts to see if they approved?

    If you continue your current behaviour you may find out what happens when an AVO is issued against you.

    If the tenant leaves and cites your behaviour as their reason for leaving, I wonder if the landlord could claim compensation for loss of rent from you?

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