- This topic has 29 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 4 weeks ago by .
29/06/2020 at 9:29 am #50735Joe50Flatchatter
hi everyone ,
im In NSW and am putting up with a lazy landlord/lazy real estate agent who are basically lying to me and fudging me off hoping I go away. I made a noise complaint about there tenants , and the landlord via the real Estate agent said they have a handyman coming and will put pads on the cubbards etc , and from now on not contact them and talk to the strata and building manager about noise etc.
Blah Blah, I then say okay can you confirm what date this handyman will be coming and I want the landlord to Agree to show me proof of receipts that work has been carried out and can you email me a copy of proof of receipts when work has been carried out.
Three days later , surprise surprise no email reply agreeing to my fair terms. Which says to me, the owner won’t spend any money on handyman unless he is forced to by a legal body eg Fair trading. As he hasn’t emailed me back agreeing to tell me the dates of this so called handyman coming and receipts.
I feel like also being in attendance watching the handyman carry out this work , but he will fudge away from that(there is no security threat To the tenants me watching the handyman put pads in etc). Just time wasting stalling tactics by the landlord hoping I just go away and adapt to the noise from door slams above.
Very frustrating when you try and be co-operative only to be fed lies and stalling tactics. So fair trading it is, and NCAT if possible. I feel like suing the owner above for pain and suffering eg time wasted doing all this…
- This topic was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by .
26/08/2020 at 12:17 pm #51673
The noise has continued and endless email table tennis between me and Neighbour real estate agent.
The owner of neighbouring lot has refused mediation at fair trading with me. So NCAT it is I’m applying for.
ideally, the order I want is for the neighbouring owner to be ordered to put better carpet underlays under the bedroom carpets(this will require uplifting the carpet/removing current underlays/getting accoustic consultant to do a tap test/then put new accoustically better underlays/and new carpet maybe)..
I hope I win at NCAT, as the noise transmitted into my apartment is unacceptable.22/07/2020 at 10:50 am #51150
Agree with all that. And yes fair trading and maybe NCAT seem the only viable solutions as the noise hasn’t improved…14/07/2020 at 2:39 am #50943
As much as I loathe the “this is an issue between two residents” excuse for the owners corp not getting involved, I suspect this is one of those rare cases where that’s valid.
It seems like common property is not involved and it’s hard to divine what by-law has been breached.
That’s not to to say you don’t have a case, just that the owners corp doesn’t really have a dog in this fight.
The positive aspect from your point of view is that it has previously been established in a NSW court that the landlord has a responsibility for the behaviour of their tenants.
Record the door slamming, then present Fair Trading and NCAT (if it ever gets that far) with the evidence.
12/07/2020 at 2:43 pm #50921
- This reply was modified 10 months ago by .
Weekend Update July 11th-12th:
I’ve had an update on from both my strata/and the Real Estate Agent of the landlord(this matter is NSW):
The strata said internal noise is an internal issues(internal doors eg bedroom cubbards/toiet doors etc), and they will only mediate with “Noise matters concerning” common property eg swimming pool/or balcony noise/car park noise etc).
They said for internal door noise, “Noise is subjective” and it’s a matter between you vs the neighbouring owner/and owner’s tenants..
The real estate agent after much persistence to get an answer has informed me last night that there client(owner of the neighbouring) will not be voluntary make any accoustic adjutments to the unit and will not enter into any voluntary legally binding agreements about making acocustic adjustments and as Lot owner being liable to cover those accoustic adjustments eg underlays/accoustic consultant tests/door seals etc.
And they will not message the tenant about a complaint about noise or a breach of the residenantial tenancy act/strata management act etc eg noise/nusiance/peaceful enjoyment.. And if I wanted to take Legal action against both landlord/tenant, that’s up to me but nothing about this Noise matter will be voluntary agreed on..
I had a feeling that would be there response as they have dragged my complaint out for about 6 weeks..
So when parties act like that, you have no choice and Im gonna have to get “Lawyered up” and spend money taking legal action eg NSW Fair trading/NCAT/ and even court.. And I hope I win, but it will be a long and bitter dispute I have a hunch and potentially expensive for the losing party eg underlays aren’t cheap nor are accosutic consultants fees/tradies fees/or Legal fees etc..
I feel like I am now playing the role of the “Hunter” and the “Landlord/Tenant” is playing the role of the Hunted and they will do everything they can to stop me from being legally successful over there them eg delay tactics/no interest in volunary mediation/put up stern resistence to voluntary spend thousands of dollars depite being the liable party etc..
I’ve red some cases over the weekend about apartment building noise disputes and all I see is time consuming problem costs$$ , especially the losing party eg legal fees(and sometimes ordered to pay the legal fees of the complaining neighbour)/costs to pay accoustic consultants/and costs to put in noise reduction stuff eg underlays and other accosutic stuff.
Joe5011/07/2020 at 9:09 am #50895
NSW fairtrading is not a court. You can’t approach them to solve your issue. You need to approach NCAT.
Just to be clear, Fair Trading is not a court, true, but it can resolve issues by mediating an agreement between two parties to find a mutually agreeable resolution.
Critically, in most circumstances you have to apply for mediation at Fair Trading before you can apply for orders at NCAT. An individual owner seeking orders against another owner or their tenants (under section 153) would definitely require an application for and attempt at mediation which you would have to attend although the respondents can choose not to.
As Kaindub said, this is not a court, however attempted mediation is a necessary prerequisite for seeking orders at NCAT (in most circumstances).
The section cited for taking your strata committee to NCAT for failure to act is section 232 (2).
11/07/2020 at 8:48 am #50893kaindubFlatchatter
- This reply was modified 10 months ago by .
I understand your frustration with the situation and the people involved. However as someone else pointed out demanding things to be done will only make it the other party try to frustrate you further.
Sure you have a right to peaceful enjoyment, but you are the complainant not the police nor the court. Its only the courts who can “Make” people do something.
If it’s a breach of a bylaw, ask the Owners Corporation to issue a breach notice to the tenant with a copy to the landlord. You will need to provide specific details of when these Breaches occurred. The breach notice is framed that way. If the OC refuses to issue the notice, you need to ask as to why. If it’s a lack of will on their part, then you can take the OC to the tribunal and
site section 132cite section 232(2), failure to act, and the ourt will make the OC issue the breach notice.
NSW fairtrading is not a court. You can’t approach them to solve your issue. You need to approach NCAT. But be certain of what law you want to tackle the other party on. The courts don’t settle on moral grounds but rather in the law as written. Depending on which laws you claim have been broken, the court may recommand mediation. In cases of strata law that is usually the case.
If you want to try an informal mediation, the apply to your lo so Community Justice Centre. They can try to arrange mediation, but the other party is not obliged to accept.
You need to be prepared to play the long game here. If the troublemaker ignores your requests, then the legal route may be your only option. But be aware that it can get expensive if for example the other party engages lawyers to defend themselves. You stand little chance in a court running your own case against a lawyer (just because of the processes in courts).
And the legal route will take sometime. Due to Covid 19 the courts at the moment are only hearing urgent cases, and there is a large backlog to work through when the courts fully open. Don’t expect to be in a court till next year.
Maybe a more humble approach to the tenant/landlord will get them to reconsider your requests in the meantime.
10/07/2020 at 2:19 pm #50885
- This reply was modified 10 months ago by .
what you on about no moral or legal obligation, and saying demand reciepts not gonna help. Excess noise is coming from the apartment, and breaching by laws and disrupting my peaceful enjoyment.
And they lied about getting work done, I gave them one week and they still were inactive to fix it, this on top of two weeks before a new tenant. Of course i have right to verify if reciepts are there as they made a promise and lied to fob me off..
I’ve now applied to NSW fair trading for mediation. The owner has zero interest to spend money on accoustic adjustments or tell his cash cow “the tenants$” to stop slamming doors as they don’t want to upset there cash cow the tenants.
Of course neighbours have a right to complain about door noise. And as for inspections and reciepts, why wouldn’t i as i don’t trust that Lot owner who has lied and has no intention to do anything voluntarily no matter what I do.
And the real estate is totally on the side of there cash cows the tenant and the landlord, as the landlord pays money to his real estate agent. The real estate agent has no interest in playing peacemaker, more like a trade union rep and 100% supporter of the landlord who is paying money to the real estate agency, as opposed to neighbours who are not giving money to the real estate agent.
The owner has no interest to make accoustic adjustments and spend his own money unless I take successful legal action against him.. He is uncooperative and not helpful and has no interest in volunatary mediation..
Just interested in taking money from the tenant and won’t rock the boat asking the tenant to stop slamming doors and breaching noise by laws while me the neighbour has to suffer from the noise problems.
David NG, you can’t breach noise by laws the end. eg door slamming is not acceptable..
08/07/2020 at 11:55 am #50873nugalbagsFlatchatter
- This reply was modified 10 months ago by .
“asking what day will this happen and can I see reciepts.” The Lot Owner above has no moral or legal obligation to allow you access, notify you when works will be undertaken, or show you receipts. I don’t know why you think this is reasonable. I would consider this request quite rude and aggressive. It is exactly because of your actions to date that they are now ignoring you.
Additionally your OP is not clear what the noise issue is. Is it that they ‘slam’ cupboard doors? or front door? Maybe pump the hate breaks and instead if insisting “something be done” ASAP and threatening legal recourse; go and have a polite chat with you neighbours. Tell them its disturbing you and you would be terribly appreciative if they could not slam the doors; and hand them a $5 packet of rubber or foam door pads from Bunnings. 99% of people, if an issue is made known to them (cause I can guarantee they dont know its annoying you), asked nicely, will do the right thing.02/07/2020 at 12:31 pm #50818David NgFlatchatter
At the end of the day the only thing you’re allowed to ask for is for the noise to cease in a reasonable time frame.
If I was the tenant or landlord I would be afraid of you and very quickly ask the OC to manage your complaint.
The tenant has the right to “quiet enjoyment” of their residence and it may be argued that you’re not allowing them to have that quiet enjoyment.
Look at it from their perspective; how would you react if someone demanded they be allowed to inspect your residence, watch tradespeople do work and then examine the receipts to see if they approved?
If you continue your current behaviour you may find out what happens when an AVO is issued against you.
If the tenant leaves and cites your behaviour as their reason for leaving, I wonder if the landlord could claim compensation for loss of rent from you?01/07/2020 at 9:02 am #50796
I don’t trust them to have work carried out. They said they would have handyman come and fix it , but would refuse to confirm dates or timeline or receipts. And no inspection Allowed by me. I don’t trust them as there has been endless email table tennis due to the owners inaction..
the real estate agent said today talk to strata about this matter and there client won’t let me inspect the property eg inspect the cubbard doors, under the guise of Just delaying the inevitable eg “nothing will be done unless you take successful legal action , and I hope you forget about the noise“. The owner above me has no plans to voluntarily spend money to reduce noise unless legally forced to.
All the polite steps have failed, and the real estate agent knows as does the owner it’s not a common property matter but an internal Lot matter..
Very frustrating having a month wasted playing email table tennis with the neighbour above me not lifting a finger spending anymore to fix this noise problem unless legal forced to…
NSW fair trading/and maybe NCAT are inevitable etc. Some people just aren’t flexible and won’t budge to fix a problem and spend there own money$ unless they are legally forced to..
I feel like filing a civil suit to
against this neighbor for pain and suffering and time wasted due to there inaction and refusal and fix the problem..
30/06/2020 at 9:04 pm #50786
- This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by .
I want the landlord to Agree to show me proof of receipts that work has been carried out and can you email me a copy of proof of receipts when work has been carried out. Three days later , surprise surprise no email reply agreeing to my fair terms. Which says to me, the owner won’t spend any money on handyman unless he is forced to by a legal body eg Fair trading.
Or maybe they’re just responding (by not responding) to someone who is basically saying “I don’t trust you to do what you promised …”
Maybe dial it down a little and see what happens. If nothing, then maybe Fair Trading, or maybe a civilised chat with the landlord about their tenants … Noise is 50 percent behaviour … if everyone is annoyed at you, receipts aren’t going to make any difference.30/06/2020 at 6:52 pm #50774
Yes , I’m certain it’s coming from that unit. It’s directly above. The tenants are noisy yes. The owner agreed to via there real estate agent, to get a handyman to put some pads in at requested places . I then emailed them back asking what day will this happen and can I see reciepts. No reply for one for one week. I then message the agent saying I will take there client to fair trading as they haven’t agreed or replied to showing receipts or dates of when a handyman would come in. They replied saying they won’t correspond anymore on this topic and go through the strata. Nothing was ever gonna don’t unless I take em to NSW fair trading. They just strung me along for one month with false promises hoping I buzz off but no intention to spend money .29/06/2020 at 4:48 pm #50771
Do you really know the noises are coming from these specific neighbours. (In a high density area, sometimes noises from elsewhere turn out as the problem.)
This is a very relevant point and and a phenomenon I have experienced myself – I was complaining about noise from renovations I thought were happening in the unit above. But it turned out to be empty and the flat diagonally down one floor, below the one next door, was the culprit.
I highly recommend listening to our chat with Brent Clarke in a recent podcast, when he described how using WhatsApp helped to track down late night shower noise – and result in a fix. If nothing else, contacting people who have also heard and been disturbed by the noise can only strengthen your case if you do go to the tribunal.29/06/2020 at 4:40 pm #50756BONNIE LFlatchatter
Hi there, You haven’t said how close these tenants/neighbours, are to your location. Also, have you tried asking the tenants, without being accusatory, that you are bothered, describing how bothered, by the noises that apparently seem to be coming from their spaces. Do you really know the noises are coming from these specific neighbours. (In a high density area, sometimes noises from elsewhere turn out as the problem.) If it is obvious it is your chosen source of noise, have you tried asking other neighbours whether the same noises are bothering them. Any of these measures ahead of a legal challenge may save headaches, time, and maybe unsuspecting people being threatened.
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