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  • #7636
    deliria1
    Flatchatter

      I have recently bought 'Off the Plan'. Once completed my apartment will have a 20sqm front terrace (entry into the apartment is via this terrace).

      The contract states that up to two pets are allowed. I have two cats.

      My front terrace will be split level with a 3 step height difference between the two sections. I would like to partition off a section at the beginning of the stairs (approx 8sqm) and enclose it in low visibility cat mesh (https://www.catmax.com.au/clearnet-enclosures.php), in order to allow my cats some outdoor space, but so as not to allow them to bother neighbours or soil common areas (I already do this at my current home so my cats are used to this).

      The plan is to have the entire terrace (cat section included), “designed” sympathetically, by a landscape design company so that the mesh is as unobtrusive as possible, with lots of planting etc to help disguise it.

      I am in NSW and wonder how likely it will be that the Body Coporate will refuse this?

      Also, as this is a new development & I would like to do this as soon as I move in, is it the developer I approach? Are they in essence the 'Body Corporate' until the owners move in & take over?

    Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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    • #12663
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        There's a debate going on over HERE about 'safety nets' to prevent children falling off balconies.  I wonder if pet lovers would have an opinion.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #12665
        FlatChatFan
        Flatchatter

          At least this mesh is almost invisible, and for pets, it probably could be installed lower down and almost out of sight on a balcony, or in a section of a balcony or terrace.

          #13991
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            deliria1 said:

            The plan is to have the entire terrace (cat section included), “designed” sympathetically, by a landscape design company so that the mesh is as unobtrusive as possible, with lots of planting etc to help disguise it.
            I am in NSW and wonder how likely it will be that the Body Coporate will refuse this?

            Also, as this is a new development & I would like to do this as soon as I move in, is it the developer I approach? Are they in essence the 'Body Corporate' until the owners move in & take over?

            The developer is, to all intents and purposes, the Owners Corporation in the initial period up to the point when the first AGM is held.  However, they are severely restricted in what they can and can't do in that period as regard contracts and by-laws.  They can't, for instance, “make, amend or repeal a by-law in such a manner that a right is conferred or an obligation is imposed on one or more, but not all, owners or in respect of one or more, but not all, lots.”

            Any proposed contracts and by-laws have to be confirmed (or not) at the first AGM.

            So, in short, sooner or later you are going to have to sit down with your new neighbours and get their approval.  Just to give you an example, I once bought into a building which was pet friendly according to the model by-laws but the newly-elected chairman tried to push through a by-law banning pets at the first AGM.  He failed but the ensuing battle ripped the building apart (and led, indirectly to the creation of Flat Chat).

            So I would scan the proposed by-laws and see if there's anything you might fall foul of.  The one that springs to mind is that the appearance of your terrace may have to be in keeping with the rest of the building.  If you don't have that or can find a way around it, you could be OK.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #14031
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              Had a chat with someone from Fair Trading about this and basically the Owners Corporation exists right now, even before the first AGM,  but the developer is obviously the majority voter (for want of a better term). 

              Have a look at the proposed by-laws (which should have been registered with the Strata Plan) and see if there's anything you might fall foul of. You may want to sit down with the developer (and any other owners who want to participate)  and agree on a way forward.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #14035
              Anonymous

                As a strata manager & strata owner I am very impressed that you care enough about your animals & especially your neighbours to want the best for both. There is nothing worse than cats fouling other people's property & wandering the complex.

                A majority of people like to have an animal & your solution would have me recommending it to my owners corporations for approval

                #14685
                deliria1
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Thanks for the replies.

                  I am concerned that the developer will just say no without even considering it.

                  They have been most unco-operative so far….e.g. as this is 'off the plan' and still being built, we asked if we could pay for & deliver our own tiles for the feature wall in the bathroom & the kitchen splashback. The NO was resounding.

                  Yet I know of a few people personally, who have bought 'off the plan' and they were allowed to provide all manner of bespoke items, from flooring to fixtures & fittings.

                  Seems our developer is very “old school”.

                  Also Sharyn, how do we go about getting you as the strata manager for the building??? Not sure if the developers have chosen anyone yet, but someone like you on board would be great.

                  #15013
                  deliria1
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Further to my issue of how to keep my cats within my lot, while giving them some outside space.

                    The development I have bought into, sits within a heritage facade & its metal framework.

                    My apartment is therefore not visible from the street it is only visible to other apartments within the complex

                    The developers are retaining the old metal structure which includes the gantry & crane. it has quite an industrial feel.

                    They have used aluminium louvres to screen off the ground level car park & most of the apartment courtyards & terraces heavily incorporate corrugated iron.

                    For those of you in the know when it comes to ECs and OCs, do you think I would stand a better chance of getting what I want if I close in a portion of my terrace with metal screens that match those already used within the complex, rather than use a low visibility cat mesh?

                    Obviously, it is still going to be something that is fixed to the terrace, but it will tie in with the 'industrial' look.

                    This is obviously a much more expensive option, but one I would be willing to take if it meant getting permission.

                    has anyone tried & succeeded in getting something like this to happen.

                    Would love any advice on how I should best approach this.

                    #15016
                    Whale
                    Flatchatter

                      You're obviously prepared to go to a lot of effort and expense in order to do the right thing, and whilst I admire that approach, it may all be for naught if your Owners Corporation (O/C) or the Developer, as they who hold the majority Unit of Entitlement, does as you suggest, just say no!

                      Why not limit your expense by purchasing a suitably-sized freestanding cat enclosure, and place that on your terrace together with the screening/landscaping you have suggested, but again freestanding in pots/planters?

                      In that way you don't need to seek the consent of your O/C as you're not altering or fastening anything to the Common Property (CP), and you’'re limiting your expense whilst you “test the waters” with your neighbours and your O/C.

                      Then if the worst happens and you receive complaints, you can offer to remove everything freestanding with little effort and with no damage to CP, and concurrently propose to replace that with the gold-plated option that you're considering now.

                      In that way, your O/C could claim a “win” – and that may well be just what you need; as they say “slowly, slowly catchy monkey”. 

                      #15019
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster

                        And here’s a couple of options to be going on with: https://www.catmeshenclosures.com.au/cat-enclosures.html
                        https://www.catsafe.com.au/

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        #15026
                        deliria1
                        Flatchatter
                        Chat-starter

                          Thanks Whale,

                          We did think about a freestanding enclosure, but to be honest I actually think they are less attractive and actually less practical, than the other options I am prepared to pay a lot more for… still if they give us no other choice, might be what we have to go with.

                           

                          JimmyT, the low visibility cat mesh you have sent the links to are what we had originally hoped to use. They will still require some securing to the terrace (though easily removed), the developer may think it is low visibility enough, but then again may not.

                          We have this installed on the back verandah of our current rental, it required about 6 eye screws all up attached to various parts of the house.

                          It seems so ridiculous that at my current rental the landlord could;

                          “not unreasonably refuse to give consent to add a fixture or to make a change that is of a minor nature, that can be easily rectified, removed or repaired.”

                          Yet at a place that I “supposedly” own, I have to jump through hoops just to try & do the right thing!

                          No wonder so many people tried to talk me out of selling my house & buying an apartment.

                          Look, I get that people shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want. But seriously some flexibility is necessary. 

                          #15028
                          Jimmy-T
                          Keymaster

                            There is a lot of flexibility in Strata living … it just doesn't seem to have reached you building … yet.

                            Do you have the standard by-laws that include this clause:

                            5   Damage to common property

                            (1)  An owner or occupier of a lot must not mark, paint, drive nails or screws or the like into, or otherwise damage or deface, any structure that forms part of the common property without the approval in writing of the owners corporation.

                            (2)  An approval given by the owners corporation under subclause (1) cannot authorise any additions to the common property.

                            (3)  This by-law does not prevent an owner or person authorised by an owner from installing:

                            (a)  any locking or other safety device for protection of the owner’s lot against intruders, or

                            (b)  any screen or other device to prevent entry of animals or insects on the lot, or

                            (c)  any structure or device to prevent harm to children.

                            If you have, I can't recommend that you go ahead and install the net as a child safety measure … however it might be what I would do.

                            But seriously, if you really, really  think your cat net isn't a major intrusion on the look of the building – and I mean if you think you could prove that at a tribunal – why not go ahead and install the net and let them prove otherwise? Let them make the running – IF you really think they have no complaint.

                            This Forum is awash with stories of people who have done the wrong thing and got away with it.  If you think you're doing the right thing, then do it.

                            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                            #15030
                            deliria1
                            Flatchatter
                            Chat-starter

                              Our By laws state the following:

                               

                              Balconies

                              Owners and Occupiers must not

                              (i) place or hang any item on the balcony of their Lot

                              1. which is fixed
                              2. which is inconsistent with the use as a balcony or
                              3. which is inconsistent with the aesthetics and appearance on the Building.

                              (ii) place or hang laundry, towels, rugs, bedding or any other items on the balconies of their lots

                              Not even any mention of “without the approval in writing of the owners corporation.”

                              Also, point (ii) would seem to eliminate a freestanding cat enclosure as well!

                              I personally, believe most people won't even notice the mesh & those that do, won't care. So maybe I will risk it & just install it .

                              I thought the metal screen idea was better for two reasons:

                              1. Could actually really fit in with the aesthetic of the building
                              2. Afford us some privacy as well, as our ground floor terrace, fronts right onto the pedestrian walkway & the area of the terrace we want to enclose is right outside our bedroom.
                              #15043
                              Boronia
                              Flatchatter

                                (3)  This by-law does not prevent an owner or person authorised by an owner from installing:

                                (b)  any screen or other device to prevent entry of animals or insects on the lot, or

                                If such a screen also has the “unexpected” bonus effect of keeping your animals IN as well as others out, wouldn’t this be an acceptable installation.?

                                #15051
                                deliria1
                                Flatchatter
                                Chat-starter

                                  Boronia that is a good point.

                                  However, is the terrace deemed to be part of my lot? And if so, am I able to screen it to keep random “animals” out?

                                  Still, we don't have point (3) as part of our by-law….so doesn't really apply in my case.

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