Flat Chat Strata Forum Parking Peeves Current Page

  • This topic has 29 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 12 years ago by .
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  • #7306
    Anonymous

      What can the strata body do to take action against owners and tenants who park in visitors car spaces.

       

      Thanks

    Viewing 14 replies - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)
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    • #14016
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        Apparently Fair Trading are going to be issuing a few more “clarifications and improvements” to strata laws and regulations over the next few months – having just given developers a nice pre-Christmas present in reducing the time they can be held accountable for shoddy work from not quite long enough to negligible.

        Maybe strata parking will be on the agenda. I'm off to catch the next flying pig to Cloud Cuckoo Land.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #14017
        struggler
        Flatchatter

          In our situation was hoping to find residents in question in breach of numerous bylaws, not just the parking bylaw.  For instance, from the model bylaws which this complex adopted (with a couple of our own), was thinking of:

          Bylaw 2: Vehicle parking on common property without permission.

          Bylaw 3: Obstruction common property from intended use.  Not only the parking, but for residents car washing and maintenance of the lawn area. Also some residents have complained their their bonafide visitors with physical impairment (ie the elderly) cannot walk down our driveway as it is very steep (infact the steepness doesn't meet Building Code standards!).  So they are more than annoyed when other residents constantly park in these limited spots!

          Bylaw 4: Damage to lawns on common property.  The council insists we have lawn, not concrete.  Constant parking has deprived this area of sunshine, let alone the pressure of cars constantly parking there.  Should be empty 50% of the time even allowing for the odd rogue parker.

          Bylaw 5: Damage to common property.  With the lawns dying and the constant parking, the soil is compacted and affecting drainage and the erosion of the top soil has caused an uneven surface, something that our insurer wanted addressed in the past (spent $5000 upgrading visitors car parks to satisfy insurer and council).

          Also Bylaw 1:  The main offenders of parking favor the visitors parking located right under the window of a resident whose bedroom is 4 metres away.  This constant coming and going is bothering this resident especially as the main offenders drive utes/SUVs/V6/V8 cars and sometimes arrive in the middle of the night or rev them up at 5am.  This resident has mentioned on numerous occasions that should the matter of the parking not be addressed may ask for sound proofing/double glazing/privacy film be supplied by OC!

          So thoughts on us hitting these serial offenders with all of the above?  Breaching more than one bylaw in the one instance?  Anyone done similar?  

          #14022
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            I'd be tempted to launch a  “reality check” campaign for all owners. Issue a circular telling everyone that the EC is clamping down on all illegal parking and then spelling out exactly what can be done to rogue parkers in terms of notices to comply and subsequent fines at the CTTT.

            Don't get all legalistic – simple messages such as “There are no three warnings in strata.  The Notice To Comply is what it says it is … failure to obey it will lead to heavy fines at the CTTT.”

            I would also push through a by-law that allowed the OC to impose a management service charge of, say, $200 for each time a Notice To Comply was issued following a vote at the EC.

            If owners want to fight the management fee, they can do so at the CTTT.

            And I would suggest that rogue parkers be “named and shamed” in EC minutes every time they park illegally.

            And I would remind owners that nothing puts prospective buyers off quicker than car park chaos.  Who wants to bay a parking space they may never get to use and where there aren't any visitor spaces because Revhead upstairs has forur cars and one space.

            Nothing motivates strata dwellers more effectively that a tweak of the hip pocket nerve.  Fines, management fees and the threat to the value of their homes should get their attention.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #14023
            struggler
            Flatchatter

              Perhaps, after we send our another notice spelling out in plain English that the visitors parking is for visitors and car washing, we could ask the Strata Manager to charge offenders a $50 fee for sending out Notices to Comply.  This $50 fee worked really well when our Strata Manager complained about the number of chase up correspondence sent out to people who were very forgetful!  Since that fee was introduced the SM has had to chase up only a few people.

              So a $50 fee for a Notice to Comply, for each by-law (parking on common property, obstructing area from its intended use, damage to lawns and noise) that would be $200!  Personally, don't care if the SM benefits from those say “but no one was using the space when I parked there”.  This morning is day 6 in a row that one resident has parked his ute in a visitors car space.  So thats all weekend when most people have friends and family over.  Most people want to wash their cars.  The arrogance and lack of respect for others is astounding from this resident!

              #14025
              Billen Ben
              Flatchatter

                Are things getting a little out of hand?

                OC instigated fines for parking, OC requested management fees for issuing a notices to comply – are these things really valid because if they are then the 4th level of Govt (Owners Corporations and their agents) have been given too much autonomy in their little kingdoms and Pandora's box is open.

                If these concepts are valid then i would encourage OC's to regulate who lives in their SP's via fines and management fees directed at driving those certain undesirable people out of their little kingdoms. If by-laws can be passed to have fines then why not use the power to manipulate who lives in a SP.

                A by-law that says a $1000 fine for old guys who wear their pants too high – that will get rid of whinging old Jack in unit 7 who constantly writes to the EC about everything the EC is not doing right.

                In another topic on this forum it is stated that OC fines are bluff, even if they are in a by-law.
                Are they bluff or are they legitimate?

                This whole topic exists for the simple reason the strata dispute resolution mechanism is dysfunctional and CTTT are useless; there's ya problem.

                That each and every SP is left to deal with the matter of parking as if they are their own little realm is a failure of a system that does not want responsibility for the problems it has created by being out of touch with the nature of the strata beast.

                #14030
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  There is a theory (which I believe is yet to be tested) that if you pass a by-law saying that owners accept that they will be fined for illegal parking, then the can be fined.  The same theory applies to 'management fees' for issuing Notices To Comply.

                  Given that you need 75 percent of those voting at a general meeting to pass by-laws, this is not something that can be imposed on the whim of a few individuals. Whether or not it's legal or  not is another issue but from what I hear, it works as a deterrent so where's the harm?

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #14041
                  struggler
                  Flatchatter

                    The main offender of parking in visitors spots moved his “truck” – after a note was left under his door (on day 6 of his parking) with all the dates that his truck and their other car have been parked in a visitors spots (which was half of the month of October up to the 24th!). 

                    The residents next to the visitors spots reported that he revved up the truck at 7am after receiving said note and moved it to the empty street (seriourly, most flatchat readers would not believe how much parking this complex has out on the street!) where it has stood every since!

                    It seems that he has been able to place able bodied one foot in front of the other and walk the extra 10 or so steps that parking illegally in the visitors spots saved him. 

                    #14037
                    Whale
                    Flatchatter

                      JImmy, Ben, Struggler et al…

                      On the subject of Parking Fines, the advice that our Plan received back in 2006 (from a Barrister who at the time lived in the Building next door) was that an O/C cannot legally issue fines under any circumstances. But it can invoice parking fees provided the basis of those can be proven (e.g. photos), that they’re enabled by a registered Special By-Law, and that they don’t purport (e.g. resemble) to be a fine; even brown envelopes are out!

                      So after first placing a politely-worded postcard style note (cheap at “Vista Print”) under the windscreen wipers of offending vehicles, that’s what we’ve done, and as I reported in an earlier post, with limited success so far as payment is concerned but with substantially more success in stopping the inappropriate use of designated visitors’ carspaces and those of other residents.

                      I’d love to make some constructive comments on those (of Billen Ben) about O/C’s becoming our 4th Tier of Government – but that will have to wait until I have some more time.

                      #14053
                      Billen Ben
                      Flatchatter

                        I like the Vista Print product placement.

                        Thank you Whale for a little clarification. The barrister says no fines but as Jimmy says the concept is untested. I tend to agree with the barrister but if it is untested then the barrister is expressing opinion.

                        I like the fee idea – it is pseudo paid parking except it cost a lot more than a hungry parking meter. It is like a very short term license over a small piece of common property. It is also an untested idea that is dangerous.

                        Just look at the nature of some OC's found in this forum and the concept of allowing them to impose fees is as dangerous as letting them impose fines.

                        I would also mention that elsewhere in the forum there is something about sticking things under windscreen wipers (cheap at Auto Barn) being illegal.

                        Jimmy loves to talk about the owners empowering things by special resolution but i have some concerns over this type of democracy, it can disadvantage people because they do not have the numbers.

                        If fees were by unanimous resolution then perhaps that would be OK but action by special resolution had led to cases where CTTT has acknowledged that this type of democracy can disproportionately disadvantage some people. Generally it works but it has the potential to be misused and that potential has been realised in several CTTT matters.

                        I look forward to some comments on the 4th level of Government – in our OC we now have a 5th level; sub committees act as if they are empowered by their existence.

                        #14062
                        Jimmy-T
                        Keymaster

                          Billen Ben said:

                          Jimmy loves to talk about the owners empowering things by special resolution but i have some concerns over this type of democracy, it can disadvantage people because they do not have the numbers.
                          If fees were by unanimous resolution then perhaps that would be OK but action by special resolution had led to cases where CTTT has acknowledged that this type of democracy can disproportionately disadvantage some people. Generally it works but it has the potential to be misused and that potential has been realised in several CTTT matters.

                          The usual reason people don't have the numbers is because the majority of people don't agree with them.  Requiring a unanimous vote on financial decision is a frankly ridiculous idea.  And of course some people are “disadvantaged” by a majority vote – even one that requires 75 percent of support.  That's life.  What about the 90+ percent of people who would be disadvantaged because one antisocial curmugeon refused to go along with a proposal that made sense to everyone else in their building?

                           

                          As Winston Churchill once observed: “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government  … except all the others that have been tried.”

                          As for strata being the fourth level of government … of course it is.  But this is nothing new … village councils and street committees have been around for hundreds of years.  The truly retrograde aspect of strata democracy is that it is based on ownership rather than residency and right there is the root of most of its problems.

                          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                          #15122

                          We have new tenants in our complex who have 2/3 cars parked in visitors parking and a 4th outside their garage blocking another tenant from getting in and out of their parking area. I placed  the following notice on 2 cars which have been stationary for over 1 week

                          This Car is Parked in a 

                          VISITORS PARKING SPACE

                          Visitor Parking spaces are for the use of VISITORS of all residents

                          We understand that on OCCASION, residents use these spaces for SHORT periods of time.

                          Please be respectful to all units by abiding by this.

                          Please note – Parking cars on the grass in  Not Permitted.

                           

                          The notice was removed from the car, driven out and returned to the same spot 1 hour later – it seems that some residents do not feel the need to respect their fellow neighbours or have any regard for others.

                          #15124
                          Jimmy-T
                          Keymaster

                            Yu need to crack down on the HARD and as soon as possible.

                            Put a a note on their cars explaining that by parking in Visitors parking or on grass verges they are:
                            a) in breach of the buildings by laws and that will lead to fines of up to $550 and
                            b) by being in breach of by-laws they are also in breach of their lease which could lead to eviction.
                            They are not free from by-laws because they are tenants – in fact they are even more at risk because they could lose their home.
                            I wouldn’t mention the occasional use by other residents – that too is a breach of by-laws and could come back to bite you on the bum if this went to a tribunal.
                            A copy of the same notice from your strata manager or EC secretary should be delivered to their mailbox and to the rental agent for the property. And you need to have an EC meeting as soon as possible to agree to issuing a Notice To Comply, the first step in having them fined by the CTTT.

                            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                            #15161
                            struggler
                            Flatchatter

                              The problem here is that you note you left actually gives them and anyone else permission to park there – at least in their eyes.    “On occasion” and “short periods of time” are all tolerated in this complex but just not in writing.”

                              Parking in visitors car parks to load or unload the car, because it is pouring with rain and thunderstorms overhead, or because they had forgotten something or are just popping in to change clothes before heading out again – these are all instances that we tolerate in this complex.  We would not hand out a notice or remind them of bylaws for any of the above.  But if we said it was OK, then should we have to confront a serial parker they would simply say “I thought it might rain” or “I was only there for a short time” (for some it may be a couple of days!).  If you give them an inch………..

                              Here, we leave a note simply saying that the visitors car spots are common property and for the temporary use of visitors only and that  residents are not permitted to park in the visitors car parks without approval.   In that we state who can park there, who can't  (but under what circumstances they can).  No time limits or exemptions mentioned.  Don't give them excuses to use against you.

                              #15305

                              I am with you on this.

                              Do not give them an option that will allow an out.

                              We place a polite letter under their wiper, we do this three times before a sticker is applied to the rear drivers side window. This sticker is a bright yellow or orange colour and is difficult to remove. This tends to have an effect but you may still need to visit the Real Estate agent and get them to follow up with a letter threatening eviction for non compliance with the by laws.

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                            Flat Chat Strata Forum Parking Peeves Current Page