• Creator
    Topic
  • #55900
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

      In one of the stratas I am involved with, recently  was informed a pet had moved into one of the flats. A mid-large size dog. So I asked around: “how long did the committee take to approve the pet owner’s application”? I was told there was no application. A week later I saw the landlord of the rented flat where the dog resides. He is a member of the SC. When pressed by me for a reply, he claimed that he did not know a dog resided there.

      I replied that I found that hard to believe. But “assuming you’re right and you did not know, the fact is NOW you know. First, when will you issue a notice to comply with the by law to your tenant, for not complying by not applying for residency for the pet? Second, when will you insist on an application be made by the pet owner by sent to the SC”?

      Long story short, the committee member did nothing. No notice to comply was issued and no demands for the pet owner to apply to keep a pet. For all I know, he never informed his mates on the SC at any time.

      Questions:   (1) What action can be taken against this committee member by members of the OC? (The dog is loud at times); and  (2) Must a SC bring to the attention of the OC:

      (a) Poorly behaving members of the OC (eg those who ignore by-laws?) ;

      (b) Details of pet applications received or can the SC keep that to themseves? and

      (c) Details of which applications were successful and which were not?

    Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
    • Author
      Replies
    • #55963
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        Questions: (1) What action can be taken against this committee member by members of the OC? (The dog is loud at times);

        The strata committee as representatives of the owners corporation has an obligation to enforce by-laws

        (2) Must a SC bring to the attention of the OC: (a) Poorly behaving members of the OC (eg those who ignore by-laws?) ;

        No. They just have to enforce their by-laws.  They don’t have to make a song and dance about it.

        (b) Details of pet applications received or can the SC keep that to themseves? and

        (c) Details of which applications were successful and which were not?

        Pet applications should be discussed at committee and the result recorded in the minutes.  Otherwise they should be in the records of the strata scheme and available to all owners.

        Why don’t you submit a motion to the committee to either show that they have considered a pet application for that dog or ask them to commence actions against the tenant to require them to follow the by-laws?

        I suspect you know the answers to these questions and I wonder why you are airing all these disputes with your committee – or one member of it – in these pages.

         

         

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #55964
        TrulEConcerned
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Jimmy wrote

          Pet applications should be discussed at committee and the result recorded in the minutes. Otherwise they should be in the records of the strata scheme and available to all owners.

          Why don’t you submit a motion to the committee to either show that they have considered a pet application for that dog or ask them to commence actions against the tenant to require them to follow the by-laws?

          I suspect you know the answers to these questions and I wonder why you are airing all these disputes with your committee – or one member of it – in these pages.

          Thanks for the point on by-laws needing to be enforced and a song and dance need not be made about it. That makes sense.

          As to your other answers, I did not know that pet matters need to be recorded in the minutes because to date in the strata I refer to, pet matters have not been recorded in minutes.

          I like your suggestion on submitting a motion about pets in residence and to clarify is applications for pets to reside at the strata were made by owners.

          #55966
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            I did not know that pet matters need to be recorded in the minutes because to date in the strata I refer to, pet matters have not been recorded in minutes.

            Anything that’s going to be discussed and voted on should be in the agenda, anything that IS discussed and voted on should be in the minutes.  There is no such thing (or should be) as “any other business” at NSW strata meetings.

            If the committee is discussing and voting on issues that are neither on the agenda nor in the minutes then their decisions have no standing, especially in terms of the by-laws.

            All that said, there is nothing to stop committee members having informal discussions away from the meeting to decide what they are or aren’t going to discuss at the meeting.

            That’s why I suggested proposing a motion.

             

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #55969
            Sir Humphrey
            Strataguru

              Any committee resolution to approve an application for keeping a pet or anything else should be recorded in the minutes of the committee meeting that made that decision. Otherwise, how would anyone be able to show that approval had been given?

              #55994
              Miranda
              Flatchatter

                So you didn’t know the dog was there until you were ‘informed’? On that basis I can’t imagine it being too noisy.  The others have outlined steps you can take, but I’m wondering if other owners are bothered apart from you?  Or if …no offence ……. you don’t like dogs per se.  The resident has every right to have that dog if it’s not creating nuisance and if it is creating nuisance then apart from rounding up the OC Committee the Council can take action.

                But before doing all this have you spoken to the resident?  Have you tried to see their point of view and how distressing it would be for them to have to remove the dog?  It would be good (and kinder) I feel to give all this some more thought I feel.

                 

                #56058
                TrulEConcerned
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  To clarify:

                  1. I like dogs;
                  2. Others in the complex have not complained because the dog’s immediate neighbours are tenants who have no idea of their rights and are shy of bothering their landlords;
                  3. I do not live in the complex and saw and heard the dog when I visited a tenant to do some gardening;
                  4. The dog does not bark 24/7 but barks enough to send one tenant into the street to make phone calls;
                  5. I am pro-pet, but I don’t like the multiple hurdles thrown in my way and in the way of another ownersby the SC when we inquired about a potential tenant of ours wanting a pet. We were given forms to fill in with multiple questions and were informed that the SC has 14 days to render an opinion. No such hurdles were positioned when the tenant of an SC member moved a dog in. I base that comment on the replies of SC members who when I brought the matter up denied any knowledge of any pet in the complex and of any application for a pet.
                  #56065
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    Others in the complex have not complained because the dog’s immediate neighbours are tenants who have no idea of their rights and are shy of bothering their landlords;

                    You know this, how?  They told you?  They asked you what their rights were?  Seems like a generalised assumption to me.

                    We were given forms to fill in with multiple questions and were informed that the SC has 14 days to render an opinion. No such hurdles were positioned when the tenant of an SC member moved a dog in.

                    So your dog application was minuted but the committee member’s wasn’t? And they didn’t have to fill in the same forms that you did? There seem to be a lot of assumptions being made here.

                    Did you ever submit a motiong requesting clarification to the committee?  Maybe there’s been a change in SC policy sine you applied, following the Court of Appeal ruling.

                    In any case Section 156 and Section 158 of the Act, respectively deal with animals that have not been given permission under the terms of by-laws, or have been given permission but prove to be a nuisance.

                    But maybe the problem isn’t the dog, but the procedure and the people involved, and that is another matter entirely.

                     

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    #56059
                    TrulEConcerned
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Thank you Sir Humphrey. This committee like several I have been involved with are, shall we say…very informal. Few if any meetings are held. As to evidence of approval given to a pet owner…I expect the Chair will issue a letter to that effect in due course. When or if the pet owner asks for it. And that letter will not be broadcast.

                      In my experience, committees prefer the less is written the better and many owners are not au fait with their rights and when told “it’s OK for you to have a pet”, will often not follow that up with a request for that in writing.

                      #56072
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster

                        As to evidence of approval given to a pet owner…I expect the Chair will issue a letter to that effect in due course. When or if the pet owner asks for it. And that letter will not be broadcast.

                        There are a lot of assumptions in theses posts. The simple fact is that many strata schemes, especially small ones,  operate informally and when there is a misstep, it can usually be quickly remedied.

                        In this case, who has been harmed? And if that person isn’t prepared to complain through the proper and readily available channels, that’s their choice.

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        #56092
                        TrulEConcerned
                        Flatchatter
                        Chat-starter

                          Re: Jimmy’s comments

                          1. Tenants told me that they would like the barking to stop and do not know how to address the situation;
                          2. I agree that it is the tenants who are harmed (or say they are) who should complain. The problem I see is that they cannot point to a document indicating a dog was approved to live in a certain lot and hence if I direct them to the by-laws (and for them to ask the SC/OC to enforce them) it may be tricky to ask the SC to enforce a by-law over a pet whose residency is undocumented;
                          3. “Did you ever submit a motion requesting clarification to the committee”? Not a motion, a query at a general meeting to which I was told “I do not know that a pet lives there”. The committee member left it at that. There has been no change in SC policy since I applied. The policy was put in place after the Court of Appeal ruled in the Cooper case.

                          My interest is simple: to ensure everyone who wants a pet will jump through the same hurdles as everyone else. No more, no less. And when an owner be it a SC member or anyone else is told that their tenant has a dog, that owner should be proactive: learn the facts and apply for pet residency in the approved manner; and not ignore the revelation  of a dog (so as to not disturb her tenant).

                           

                          #56095
                          Jimmy-T
                          Keymaster

                            I agree that it is the tenants who are harmed (or say they are) who should complain. The problem I see is that they cannot point to a document indicating a dog was approved to live in a certain lot and hence if I direct them to the by-laws (and for them to ask the SC/OC to enforce them) it may be tricky to ask the SC to enforce a by-law over a pet whose residency is undocumented;

                            I’m sorry, but this is utter nonsense. The tenants don’t need to have a document to refer to, to complain about a barking dog. If that’s what you are telling them, then they need to get advice from a more reliable source.

                            However, reading between the lines of all your other posts on this issue, it seems to me that this is more about a gripe you have with a committee member.

                            This thread is now closed

                             

                            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                          Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
                          • The topic ‘Pet By-law ignored. By strata committee member!’ is closed to new replies.