Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 27 total)
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  • #11396
    Avatardavid2708
    Flatchatter

    One of our buildings owners seems to rent out his premises cash in hand. Most probably to avoid declaring income.

    Therefore there is no official tenancy agreement nor listing on the roll of who lives in the unit.

    The owner did this with the previous tenant and for whatever reason, The Strata Manager it would seem has been rather careless with the Strata roll when it comes to tenancy details in this matter and even other legitimate tenancies.

    My query is whether this is a usual practice and there is a slackness in Strata roll updating or these are serious breaches.

    • This topic was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by .
    #28416
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    This is a massive area of non-compliance in strata – especially considering its implications for management and representation in strata blocks.

    My contacts in the strata management industry tell me that about 60-70 percent of rental agents notify the Owners Corp of a new tenant when they first let a property and about 30 percent of private landlords.

    These figures soon drop to 30 percent and less than 10 percent respectively as they neglect to keep the committee informed of changes to tenancies.  I’d take those figures as anecdotal and they vary from building to building but they do indicate the existence of a culture of non-compliance. 

    The irony is that it is one of the very few areas of strata law that actually carries a penalty ($550 max – see Section 258 below).

    It is also one of the reasons that there are very few if any apartment block strata committees that have tenant representatives.  Given that more than 50 percent of apartment residents are renters, and in some buildings that’s as high as 80 or 90 percent, they should easily pass the 50 percent threshhold that triggers the election of a tenants rep. 

    But that would require all the tenants to be registered with the Owners Corp and they’re not.  Section 258 presents an opportunity for strata committees to  get a grip on who is living in their building, make some money (the fines would be paid to the Owners Corp) and even use it to curb illegal short-term rentals.

    But in one of those “be careful what you wish for” scenarios so common in strata, they might find themselves with a tenant rep on their committee which, as we all agree, would mean the end of civilisation as we know it.

     

    258 Tenancy notice to be given to owners corporation of leases or subleases

     (1) If a lot is leased, the lessor must give notice of the lease, in accordance with this section, to the owners corporation not later than 14 days after the commencement of the lease.

    Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.

    (2) If a lot is subleased, the sub-lessor must give notice of the sublease, in accordance with this section, to the owners corporation not later than 14 days after the commencement of the sublease.

    Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.

    (3) If a lease or sublease of a lot is assigned, the assignor must give notice of the assignment, in accordance with this section, to the owners corporation not later than 14 days after the execution of the assignment.

    Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.

    (4) The notice must be in writing and specify:

    (a) the name of the tenant and an address for service of the tenant, and

    (b) the date of commencement or assignment of the lease or sublease, as the case requires, and

    (c) the name of any agent acting for the owner in respect of the lease or sublease.

    Note : An address for service of notices may be an Australian postal address or other electronic address, including an email address (see section 261).

    (5) This section does not apply to the lease of a lot by the lessor of a strata leasehold scheme to a lessee who is the owner of a lot.

    (6) A notice under this section is to be given to the original owner if it is given during the initial period of the owners corporation for a strata scheme.

    #28704
    AvatarZiggy
    Flatchatter

    As an owner, how does one get a copy of the strata roll?

    #28707
    scotlandxscotlandx
    Strataguru

    You request it from the strata manager.

    #28731
    Avatarbluehouse
    Flatchatter

    So our Strata Manager who says only she can see the Strata Roll for privacy reasons is wrong?

    I have had my suspicions about her “advice” this one. 

    #28739
    scotlandxscotlandx
    Strataguru

    Yes – completely wrong.

    #45055
    Avatarausfrosty
    Flatchatter

    I know this thread was discussed some time ago but believe my query is inline with the topic.

    I am a renter and six months into my tenancy asked my landlord if we were registered on the strata roll. She said she would check and if not ask for us to be registered. Relationship with her broke down over past few months and things are currently at the point where we will try to take her to tribunal once we are out of apartment.

    I found out the strata managing agent’s details (they were on a fire notice in the lobby of block) and called them and said I was a tenant gave me details and ask if I was on the strata roll. Was told no. Some questions to all:

    1) Is there any way as a tenant I could get a copy of the roll to confirm that is the case?

    2) If I couldn’t get a copy could NSW Civil and Administrive Tribunal get a copy from the strata managing agent if it were a matter of dispute?

    3) If our landlord has in fact not attempted to register us I assume she would be open to a fine? Would she also possibly have any consequences related to her real estate license due to the fact she has deceived us and never even attempted to register us?

    #45267
    AvatarColonel Schultz
    Flatchatter

    As an owner to get the strata role you need to do an inspection of the records at the strata managers office by giving notice and paying a fee as per s.182.

    (3) Items to be made available for inspection The owners corporation must make the following items available for inspection by the person who makes the request or the person’s agent–

    (a) the strata roll,

    The strata role is not private.

    That was determined in a NCAT case called

    <b>Legge v Network Strata Services Pty Ltd (Strata and Community Schemes) [2013] NSWCTTT 45 (8 January 2013)</b>

    Commitee members can inspect any document held by the agent as per;

    Property, Stock and Business Agents Regulation 2014 S.38 (1)

    38   Managing agent to permit executive committee to inspect records

    (1)  A strata managing agent or community managing agent must permit, on demand made at any reasonable time, any member of the executive committee of an owners corporation, community association, precinct association or neighbourhood association for whom the agent acts as managing agent to inspect any records or books of account of the corporation or association.

    #45198
    AvatarSilly Cow
    Flatchatter

    How do you know the occupier is a “tenant” and the owner is getting cash in hand? The occupier could be there under licence and not a lease or could just be a guest. At least the person is an occupier if nothing else.

    #45279
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    Colonel Schultz said:

    As an owner to get the strata role you need to do an inspection of the records at the strata managers office by giving notice and paying a fee as per s.182.

    Just be aware that email addresses are not required to be part of the strata roll so most strata managers will not pass on email addresses for alleged “privacy” reasons.

    If you are planning to use access to the strata roll to contact other owners, it would be by snail mail or telephone.

     

    #45323
    Avatarkaindub
    Flatchatter

    Sorry Jimmy

    email addresses are part of the OC records, whether recorded on the strata roll or not.

    Many OC now send notices by email. Since you can only send a notice to an”address” that is registered on the strata they then form part of the strata roll

    in any case if correspondence is done by email, the correspondence is part of the OC records. There is no “privacy” with this type of correspondence.

    I hate it that SM a) refuse to provide access to owners to OC records b) hide behind privacy legislation. Some SM need more education

     

    #45340
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    No need to apologise  … because what you are trying to say is not correct.

    Email addresses may be revealed in the records of correspondence but that doesn’t mean they are on the strata roll.

    So, yes, you can find the email addresses of some owners by a diligent search of correspondence, if they happen to have communicated with the OC by email and have not been redacted, but you are likely to be rejected if you ask for a list of all email addresses. This is on the grounds that they are not required for the strata roll by the Act and therefore are not part of the strata record.

    There’s a difference.  I don’t like it but it is the norm.

    Show me a case  that proves otherwise and I will issue a correction.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by .
    #45368
    scotlandxscotlandx
    Strataguru

    An owner must provide an address to the OC for the purposes of service of notices. That address may be either an email address or postal address. In practice, if an owner has provided a postal address for service of notices that is what appears on the strata roll. Section 178 provides that an owner must provide their email address for inclusion in the strata roll, but many people don’t, including me.

    Kaindub – your post is full of code?

    #45358
    Avatarkaindub
    Flatchatter

    The act says

    Content of strata roll

    Information about lots

    The following information must be recorded in the strata roll in relation to a particular lot in the strata scheme— Section 178

    (b) an address for service of notices,

    (c) an Australian postal address, and an email address if the holder has one, if not provided as the address for service,

    From the act its clear that email addresses form part of the strata roll .

    If the OC is sending notices to the email address and he email address is not on the strata roll, then they breach 178(b)  as the email address is not the address for service of notices.

    Irrespective of the above statement, 178(c) says the email address must be recorded on the strata roll if the owner has one.

    FYI:  I spent 10 minutes cleaning up the leftover coding from copy and paste material in this post – never again!  Go to the next page to see why Kaindub is right … but still wrong.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by .
    #45381
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    OK, let’s get this out of the way – it seems I’ve been wrong TWICE – which makes it more or less right.

    Kaindub said:

    If the OC is sending notices to the email address and he email address is not on the strata roll, then they breach 178(b)  as the email address is not the address for service of notices. Irrespective of the above statement, 178(c) says the email address must be recorded on the strata roll if the owner has one.

    What the Act says is that the lot owner must provide “an Australian postal address, and an email address if the holder has one, if not provided as the address for service.”

    This is interpreted as meaning that you have to provide a postal address and/or email address if you haven’t provided a different address for service of communications (for instance, through an agent).  The Fair Trading website doesn’t spell this out and unhelfully refers to “postal/email addresses”.

    However, here is an extract from a  Strata Community Australia (the strata managers’ professional body) FAQ:

    How do I obtain the phone number/email address/postal address of members of the committee?

    Due to privacy laws you only have the legal right to obtain the postal address of lot owners, which you can request from the strata manager, or if the scheme is self-managed, the committee … Records of the committee (which include the postal addresses of lot owners) must be made available for inspection by lot owners.

    Now, given that the Act says that strata laws are superseded by all other laws and (I think) privacy is a Federal law, it may well be that what appears to be allowed in strata law, is forbidden in privacy laws.

    So I may well  have been wrong when I wrote that email addresses weren’t required to be on the strata roll (although it may be that rental agents’ email addresses suffice), but then I was doubly wrong when I said that anything on the strata roll had to be made available to owners.

    Do two wrongs make me right?  Kind of … but trying to track down the one line of legislation, regulation or tribunal findings that definitively says OCs must not reveal email adresses to owners has proved beyond me, thus far.

    However, I did happen upon this web page from the Rockend strata management software website where it shows you how to hide the email addresses on your electronic strata roll.  It doesn’t mean it’s legal, but it does suggest it’s not illegal.

    Why would email addresses specifically be excluded from the strata roll?  Anyone who has ever suffered from spam email clogging up their inbox will testify that it is a modern plague, partly because it costs nothing to send out a million emails – something that will cost serious money using snail mail.

    There are also some seriously nasty con artists out there who will, for instance, send you convincing looking emails from your bank or internet service provider asking you to “confirm your details” – or, basically, hand over your credit card numbers, with obvious devastating sonsequences on your finances.

    So you can see why privacy issues would be tighter for email addresses on strata rolls.  Letting randoms know that you a) own an apartment and b) have an email address is an invitation for all sorts of internet jiggerypokery.

    But what if you want to get in touch with other owners (probably for reasons that your committee  or strata managers really don’t want you to)?

    What is missing from this is a link where you can send an email to a “blind” address that passes on your emails to all owners, so that you can tell them that you think there’s a problem with your committee, strata manager, building manager or whatever. That would get round the problem – but don’t expect it to happen any time soon.

    In the meantime, we just have to be thankful for the strata managers, building managers and secretaries who click on cc rather than bcc when they send out group emails.

     

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