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  • #8278

    The Owners in our strata plan are at our wits ends. We have one owner in our block who keeps making unsubstantiated and vexatious applications to OFT and the CTTT in an attempt to derail our ability to run the block effectively and overturn decisions of the majority that he doesn’t agree with.

    This has also spilled over into the local court system with a cross-claim against us for hundreds of thousands of dollars that was eventually dismissed. We have spent the last four years engaged in some kind of legal action defending ourselves against this person’s unsubstantiated claims, or defending ourselves from the repercussions of his actions. He has had absolutely no success – each of his applications and appeals in the CTTT has either been withdrawn by him (after wasting months of our time and thousands of our dollars) or dismissed by the CTTT. The financial and emotional cost to the other owners has been significant, and we live in constant worry about what he will do next.

    We know from comments that he has made to several owners that he intends to continue with further applications against us. We can’t afford the ongoing stress, not to mention the financial costs. It is causing people to sell their units to get away from the situation, and causing huge stress to the Executive Committee.

    We have asked our barrister about the prospects of having this person declared a vexatious litigant, but he advised that it is an expensive and difficult process, and that our prospects of success would be low.

    Coupled with all of this, we believe there may be some mental health issues at play. The behaviour and actions of this person are completely irrational, and nobody can have a sensible conversation with him. He cannot be reasoned with, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that he is in the wrong.

    Can anyone offer advice on what we can do to limit future damage from this person? Is there a way to prevent an owner from making future applications in the OFT and CTTT? If we truly believe his mental state is driving this destructive and damaging behaviour, is there anything we can do about it?

Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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  • #16006
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      This is one of the sticks I frequently use to beat the CTTT. According to their own website:

      “The CTTT may order costs to be paid in certain circumstances, such as if the application is considered frivolous, vexatious, misconceived or lacking in substance, or the parties are legally represented.

      View clause 20 of the Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal Regulation 2009 for the full range of circumstances where costs may be awarded.

      Yet, we know from experience that they almost never use this power.  We can only hope that in the current review of strata law and practice, CTTT adjudicators are either encouraged to use this option or, when the CTTT is absorbed into the new “Super Tribunal” as is planned, they acquire a share of the collective backbone that has been so noticeably lacking when it comes to dealing with hobby litigants.

      One thing that does occur to me is that you could think about collectively suing this irritating neighbour for damages for negatively affecting the values of your home and wasting Owners Corp time and money on spurious, vexatious and mischievous claims. 

      Now, I hasten to add that I don’t know if that would even fly as a legal action but I do know you can take strata cases to the Supreme Court on the basis that you are seeking damages and the CTTT can’t award them. I know it’s counter-intuitive when your complaint is about already having too many legal bills but the prospect of paying serious money might persuade your neighbour to take up another hobby.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
      #16005
      Anonymous

        Or the so-called ‘vexatious litigant’ could actually be in-the-right and the Executive Committee one of those proxy-enabled, do-nothing, enforce-nothing ECs who defer to a strata manager who won’t act and, as I’ve lately discovered, won’t spend money readily fixing things because he’s getting a nice commission, thank you very much, from the fund where the OC’s money is invested.

        #16007
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster

          I take your point, Urban, and one man’s whistleblower is another man’s whinger, but in this particular case, it’s hardly a ‘do-nothing’ EC.  They have been dragged through the court system many times by the same plaintiff  (when surely it would have been easier to do something, if that’s the only complaint against them) and the litigant has consistently lost.  In the scenario you describe, even if the vested interests had conspired against the Lone Wolf, surely somewhere along the line his howls would have been heard by one of the Tribunals he’s inflicted on his neighbours.

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #16009
          Anonymous

            Of course, the CTTT’s decisions were absolutely sensible, fair and just in this case because they simply always are, aren’t they, and the Executive Committee members have all done that new course which ensures they know the NSW Strata Titles Act back-to-front and always act in the best interests of larger Owners Corporation.

            #16010
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              @Urban Spaceman said:
              Of course, the CTTT’s decisions were absolutely sensible, fair and just in this case because they simply always are, aren’t they …

              Your sarcasm is a bit misplaced. You’ve been reading this website and contributing to it long enough to know that blind faith in the CTTT isn’t my view and never has been.  I’m guessing you’re frustrated at valid complaints that went nowhere. It happens – it’s wrong but it’s not everyone’s experience.

              I’m also guessing – although I shouldn’t – that you haven’t been subjected to the withering onslaught of well-funded lawyers who have access to unlimited resources and whose petulant paymasters want you to suffer just because they didn’t get their way and you, doing the right thing, were the cause of that. 

              Sleeplessness nights, wondering if you’re going to lose your home, asking yourself if it would be easier to turn up if court and lie, saying you did do all the terrible things you’ve been accused of, just so they call off the dogs and you can get what’s left of your life back. That’s the flip side of this coin.

              The CTTT isn’t always wrong (although they often are) and the campaigning owner isn’t always right, just because they won’t give up.  We see plenty of tales of owners here in this forum who’ve grabbed the wrong end of the stick and won’t let go. Winning soon becomes more important than being right and if they have the time and money to make others’ lives a misery, then they will do so.

              By the way, “the Executive Committee members have all done that new course which ensures they know the NSW Strata Titles Act back-to-front” is a good thing, right?  But, yes, perhaps too many EC members are on their committee purely to protect their own interests – although that may be nothing more sinister than making sure the building is properly maintained and run in accordance with the laws and by-laws.

              And some are do-nothing talking shops who resent any attempts from the outside to challenge their authority.  But that’s life – people are different but what most of us want, really, is just a quiet life.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #16011
              Anonymous

                I’m afraid your guess is wrong. I could show you a hundred page submission to the CTTT compiled by a strata lawyer full of unsubstantiated lies, hearsay and innuendo supposedly on behalf of the ‘Owners Corporation’s Executive Committee’ but actually organised by one individual on the committee carrying out a vendetta; helped along the way a the strata manager. It cost the OC $4,000 and then some and there was no real winner or loser in a legal sense. 

                Lies, hearsay and innuendo are all OK at the OFT and the CTTT and the lawyers and strata managers know it.

                Perhaps I should write a newspaper article about it. What do you think, Jimmy?

                #16013
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  I should know by now that every time I tell myself I shouldn’t make assumptions I’m about to find out exactly why that’s the case.
                  You could add another two zeroes to the case I was talking about but the principles are the same – people misusing the law to beat their neighbours into submission.
                  And good luck getting your story in the papers! It’s taken me ten years to get past the “nobody cares” attitude of news desks to strata … and even then it’s a struggle.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #16022
                  FlatChatFan
                  Flatchatter

                    Jimmy I applaud your patience with ‘Urban’, who obviously has had a bad experience. 

                    It is a shame that he can not accept that others also have negative experiences and would like some positive advice.

                    Unless Urban Spaceman is ‘Sam’s’ irrational neighbour, he should let Sam have his say.

                    #16023
                    Sir Humphrey
                    Strataguru

                      @JimmyT said:
                      I should know by now that every time I tell myself I shouldn’t make assumptions I’m about to find out exactly why that’s the case.
                      You could add another two zeroes to the case I was talking about but the principles are the same – people misusing the law to beat their neighbours into submission.
                      And good luck getting your story in the papers! It’s taken me ten years to get past the “nobody cares” attitude of news desks to strata … and even then it’s a struggle.

                      $10,000 was the amount anticipated in our recently passed budget to deal with a few owners who would not accept a negotiated solution to a serious problem that the vast majority of our owners were happy with. 

                      Unrelated, but when the ACT had important and valuable changes to its Unit Titles legislation last year (passed unanimously by Liberal, Labor and Greens members) all the evening news was about some other sensationalist stuff I have already forgotten. 

                      #16025


                      @JimmyT
                      said:
                      This is one of the sticks I frequently use to beat the CTTT. According to their own website:

                      “The CTTT may order costs to be paid in certain circumstances, such as if the application is considered frivolous, vexatious, misconceived or lacking in substance, or the parties are legally represented.

                      View clause 20 of the Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal Regulation 2009 for the full range of circumstances where costs may be awarded.

                      Yet, we know from experience that they almost never use this power.  We can only hope that in the current review of strata law and practice, CTTT adjudicators are either encouraged to use this option or, when the CTTT is absorbed into the new “Super Tribunal” as is planned, they acquire a share of the collective backbone that has been so noticeably lacking when it comes to dealing with hobby litigants.

                      One thing that does occur to me is that you could think about collectively suing this irritating neighbour for damages for negatively affecting the values of your home and wasting Owners Corp time and money on spurious, vexatious and mischievous claims. 

                      Now, I hasten to add that I don’t know if that would even fly as a legal action but I do know you can take strata cases to the Supreme Court on the basis that you are seeking damages and the CTTT can’t award them. I know it’s counter-intuitive when your complaint is about already having too many legal bills but the prospect of paying serious money might persuade your neighbour to take up another hobby.

                      Hi Jimmy, thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. As mentioned, we are in a desperate situation and I have come to this forum to reach out for help and advice, not to whinge as others might suggest. 

                      In our last foray into the CTTT, this neighbour managed to drag out his appeal against the Adjudicator’s decision for 6 months without ever having to explain the legal basis for his appeal. His application form simply said “Appeal all grounds” – no evidence, no argument, no explanation. He finally withdrew his appeal after he was directed to provide his legal grounds for his appeal by a certain date. Our lawyer pressed very hard for costs to be awarded on that occasion, but we were unable to get a cent. Our experience with this individual in the CTTT is that he was able to get a long way and cause a lot of disruption and expense based on little or no evidence.

                      Sadly, I don’t think the prospect of large legal fees will deter this person – and this is where the mental health issue comes into play. As a result of our recent case in the local courts in which the Owners Corporation was successful, this owner is facing the prospect of a very large costs decision being made against him in the next few weeks.

                      Even with this hanging over his head, he is continuing to threaten us about what legal action he will initiate next. A rational person would be worried about being in his shoes and would realise when it is time to back off – this person however has no self awareness and no perspective on the situation, and that is one of the reasons he is so persistent and his actions are so damaging. He has complete confidence in himself at all times and, even when he has lost, refuses to accept the decision or the consequences and just moves on to the next avenue of attack.

                      We would be extremely reluctant to initiate legal action against this neighbour, firstly because it would only encourage him and make him feel important, secondly because of the huge costs involved in going to the Supreme Court, and thirdly because as you say, we are trying to prevent further legal action, minimise stress to owners and just get on with the business of looking after our block.

                      Our committee is comprised of hard-working dedicated people. There are no proxies involved, we all show up, work hard and do our best to involve the other owners as much as possible. I estimate in the last 4 years I have spend 10-20 hours per week on strata committee duties  – not only to carry out my role as secretary, but mainly in dealing with the various court  cases, CTTT hearings, and briefing lawyers, or doing legwork for the lawyers to try to keep our costs down. 

                      We are always worried about having to keep enough money aside for the burgeoning legal fees, and that financial consideration unfortunately impacts every other decision about maintaining the property. We all have better things to do than lie awake at night worrying about being sued. 

                      Again, thanks for your help Jimmy.

                      #16030
                      Anonymous

                        This situation truly exposes the CTTT and the system for the ridiculous masquerade that it is.

                      Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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