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  • #50241
    Avatartoledo3ft
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    I am interested in installing Double-Glazed windows to block out road noise. But I am SO confused about how this works (Im very new to all this Strata stuff).

    Here are my questions, any feedback would be massively appreciated:

    1. If Strata agrees to me replacing my windows (at my cost), does this mean I am forever responsible for the windows moving forward? From what I gather I will have to have a By-Law created especially for my Unit? What exactly does that mean?

    2. If I sell my Unit in the future, after replacing the windows, will the future owner have to sign a special agreement saying they are responsible for the windows? Will this hurt my chance of a sale?

    3. The windows in my building are old, and I know that Strata are actually considering possibly upgrading all of them at some point. If they do go ahead with this, and I have already upgraded my windows, does this mean I will have to remove my windows and have their ones installed?  If that was the case, then I cant imagine why anyone would ever risk paying loads of money to upgrade windows, if they might have to remove them again anyway and then pay for another set chosen by Strata.

    Sorry if my questions are amateur-ish. I really am new to all this Strata stuff and it confuses the hell out of me.

    Many thanks for any replies,

    T.

     

     

    • This topic was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by .
Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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  • #50430
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    As we have said before, strata law does not require a special resolution or a by-law for the installation of double glazing.  It does however require permission that should not be unreasonably refused. You need to send your committee secretary a letter to this effect.

    Something along the lines of:

    To: Secretary of Strata Scheme [Number]

    Ref: Double-glazing

    I note from your recent minutes that you have asked me to provide a special resolution by-law for consideration at a general meeting. Under the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act 2015 and Strata Schemes Regulations 2016, the installation of double-glazing is deemed to be a minor renovation and minor renovations only require permissions (which may not be unreasonably refused).

    Specifically, Part 4, 28(e) of the regulations says double-glazed windows are a minor renovation. Meanwhile section 110 of the strata Act says minor renovations only require approval, which can be given by the committee (if it has delegated authority to act on behalf of the owners corporation, as most do).

    (1) The owner of a lot in a strata scheme may carry out work for the purposes of minor renovations to common property in connection with the owner’s lot with the approval of the owners corporation given by resolution at a general meeting. A special resolution authorising the work is not required.(2)  The approval may be subject to reasonable conditions imposed by the owners corporation and cannot be unreasonably withheld by the owners corporation.

    I look forward to hearing what conditions for the installation the committee might require.

    That is not legal advice but it is precisely what I would do.  Given your admitted lack of experience in strata matters, you might consider talking to someone like our sponsors, StrataAnswers or an experienced strata lawyer (like our other sponsors Sachs Gerace) about representing you in this.

    Free advice is only going to get you so far, especially when, as you say, you really don’t know how things work.

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by .
    #50423
    Avatartoledo3ft
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter
    Hi Jimmy-T,
    Thanks for getting back to me.
    As for your question: It was the Strata Committee. It was in the Minutes of the latest Strata Committee meeting.
    I don’t know why they say I need a by-law if strata law says I don’t. I have no idea how any of this works because I am so new to it.
    Their words were “Should any owner wish to install Double-Glazed windows they would need to prepare a by-law for the Owners Corporation’s review and consideration at a General Meeting.”
    Are they breaking some kind of rule by saying this?
    Thanks,
    #50422
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    Who do you mean when you say “the strata”?  The Strata Manager?  That Strata Committee?  And why do they say you need a by-law when strata law clearly says you don’t?

    #50420
    Avatartoledo3ft
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    <p class=”p1″>First of all, sincere apologies Jimmy. Not only am I new to the Strata thing, but Im also very new to organised Internet forums. My experience up until now has mainly been posting in YouTube comments or the occasional comment on reddit.</p>
    <p class=”p1″>I did actually read though all replies, and saw that someone said a by-law isn’t needed. At that point (before the general meeting) I wasn’t sure I would need a by-law. But since reading those replies, I have heard back from Strata who have said I actually will need to prepare a by-law for review (‘the result of that general meeting’). That’s why I started a new topic. I wasn’t merely re-phrasing same question, I actually had new information.<span class=”Apple-converted-space”>  In the new topic, </span>I was mainly asking how one is prepared i.e. I’d moved on from asking “why do I need one” to “how do I prepare one” I definitely should have worded / explained that better.</p>
    <p class=”p1″>Anyway, lesson learned. Sorry for clogging things up.</p>
    <p class=”p1″>T</p>

    #50414
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    Yesterday, this OP yesterday attempted to post a variation of the same question under a different heading. I’m posting it here as an example of a couple of things that really annoy me on this Forum.

    I informed my Strata I wanted to install Double Glazing, and it was brought up in the general meeting. The result of that meeting is that I need to prepare a by-law to show Strata for consideration / approval. I have no idea how to go about doing this, does anyone have any advice? Do I basically need to find a lawyer to work alongside my window company, to draft up the plans as well as legal mumbo-jumbo, and then put it all forward to Strata for review?

    Strike one:  if you read through the rest of this thread you will see that the OP has been informed that they don’t need a by-law, unless there are circumstance that they haven’t revealed to the Flatchatters who’ve taken the time and trouble to answer the original query. What’s the point in in asking questions if you don’t read the answers?

    Strike two: Starting a new thread on the same question because you’re not satisfied with the first answer is not allowed.  This scattergun. pester-power approach clogs up the forum with multiple variations on the same question.  If you don’t understand the answers or you want to know what to do next, come back to the original thread.  Don’t wander off and start the same process elsewhere.

    It annoys me when Flatchatters have wasted their time and energy on people who don’t bother to read the replies.  Just repeating the question in a new thread does nothing to lower the blood pressure.

    A valid question would have been “I’ve read the responses but the strata committee insists I need a by-law … what do I do now?”

     

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by .
    #50348
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    According to the Strata Scheme Regulations Act 2016 Part 4, 28(e) Double glazed windows are deemed to be a minor renovation and hence do not require approval by the OC.

    Yes, they are classified a “minor” renovation but they still require approval under section 110 of the Act (but not a special resolution or by-law, as I previously thought).

    (1) The owner of a lot in a strata scheme may carry out work for the purposes of minor renovations to common property in connection with the owner’s lot with the approval of the owners corporation given by resolution at a general meeting. A special resolution authorising the work is not required.

    (2)  The approval may be subject to reasonable conditions imposed by the owners corporation and cannot be unreasonably withheld by the owners corporation.

    Now, the wording is a little confusing as “approval … given by resolution at a general meeting” could mean that the strata committee could approve the installation, provided it has been given the standard powers to do so. However, they could impose reasonable restrictions, such as that the lot owner agrees that they will maintain the windows at their own expense and that they will not change the external appearance of the block.

    But, in a nutshell, you don’t need a by-law but you do need committee approval (at least) which must not be unreasonably refused.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by .
    #50247
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    1. If Strata agrees to me replacing my windows (at my cost), does this mean I am forever responsible for the windows moving forward?

    Yes.  This is an essential part of strata law.  if you want to change common property (the windows) you can’t expect the owners corporation (a.k.a. the body corporate, a.ka. other owners in the building) to be responsible for the upkeep of something they didn’t ask for or need.

    From what I gather I will have to have a By-Law created especially for my Unit? What exactly does that mean?

    Amended response: You do not need a by-law but you do need the approval of the committee and it can impose reasonable conditions

    2. If I sell my Unit in the future, after replacing the windows, will the future owner have to sign a special agreement saying they are responsible for the windows?

    Amended response: The new owners won’t have to sign anything as the agreement  you make with the strata committee should be transferrable.

    Will this hurt my chance of a sale?

    Hardly at all and certainly not as much as excessive traffic noise.

    3. The windows in my building are old, and I know that Strata are actually considering possibly upgrading all of them at some point. If they do go ahead with this, and I have already upgraded my windows, does this mean I will have to remove my windows and have their ones installed?

    Highly unlikely.  The windows are now yours and if they have agreed to allow them to be installed, then they have to stick with that.  However, you will have to pay a share of the installation of everyone else’s windows (unless you are in Victoria) while they don’t have to pay anything towards yours.  Maybe you should wait and see what their plans are before you go ahead with your own windows.

     I really am new to all this Strata stuff and it confuses the hell out of me. Many thanks for any replies, T.

    You can search for any terms you don’t understand, right here. Or you might want to do a little research – at least into why the terms like “the Strata” mean nothing.  Read the Fair Trading guide to Strata Living or, even better, go to Strataman.com.au, where everything is explained.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by .
    #50339
    Avatarkaindub
    Flatchatter

    Toledo3ft

    if you are in NSW there is good news.

    According to the Strata Scheme Regulations Act 2016 Part 4, 28(e) Double glazed windows are deemed to be a minor renovation and hence do not require approval by the OC.

    There is a caveat and that is that if it affects the external appearance of the lot it does require OC approval.

     

    #50264
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    As for waiting to see what Strata do with windows upgrade, I probably won’t wait as I’ve seen the proposed upgrades and they will have the same lack of sound-blocking qualities as the windows already in place. And it could be years anyway before that upgrade happens anyway.

    At the risk of being accused of promoting one of our sponsors, have a look at the post from Gary from Windowline.  A secondary window inside your existing one might be the solution you are looking for, it shoud be less expensive than a fully double-glazed sound-reducing window and it will not require a by-law.

    #50263
    Jimmy-TJimmy-T
    Keymaster

    One solution may be to aks the owners corp if you can pay for the difference between they windows they want to install and what you want.

    But bear in mind that they may not want you to install windows that look radically different from all the others.

    #50260

    To combat a noise problem the type of frame being installed is also a factor, as some frames allow more air filtration and therefore more noise transfer.

    Generally speaking, Awning or Casement Windows are far superior to Sliding or Double Hung Windows as they have inbuilt compression seals that virtually eliminate the passage of air.

    Of course, it’s generally not possible to change the design of the windows unless all the windows are being replaced and the Owners agree.

    In terms of the glass, double glazing is primarily designed for thermal insulation and only assists in the reduction of noise by virtue of the increased mass of glass [two panels instead on one].

    A secondary window system can also be a very effective solution to noise and involves the installation of a second set of windows inside the existing, but the space between the external and internal windows must be 100mm for there to be a significant reduction in noise.

    There are a number of types of Acoustic Laminated Glass that may be a better and more cost-effective solution to noise, however if you would like to increase your thermal comfort and decrease noise, then a well-sealed window incorporating double glazing of an appropriate thickness may be the best solution.

    Clear Double Glazing will offer good thermal benefits in colder months, however if solar heat gain is an issue, then a double-glazed unit incorporating a Low-E Coating is a must.

    As far as the type of framing material used uPVC is becoming increasingly popular, however Aluminium is still the primary material of choice.

    Thermally broken Aluminium Windows are also available [at a cost] with the benefit being the reduction in heat transference through the frame, as Aluminium is a super conductor and while I would highly recommend this option is colder climates, it could be an overkill in some locations.

    #50250
    Avatartoledo3ft
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    Jimmy-To,

    I’m very grateful for you response thank you so much, it’s made things pretty clear for me.

    As for waiting to see what Strata do with windows upgrade, I probably won’t wait as I’ve seen the proposed upgrades and they will have the same lack of sound-blocking qualities as the windows already in place. And it could be years anyway before that upgrade happens anyway.

    Many thanks,

    T

    #50246
    Sir HumphreySir Humphrey
    Strataguru

    If you talk to enough of your neighbours, perhaps you will be able to go to the strata committee and tell them that, as it happens, quite a few owners are open to the idea of spending a bit more and getting noise and thermal insulation as well. The committee might be just assuming that there would be no appetite for spending more than the minimum.

    #50244
    Avatartoledo3ft
    Flatchatter
    Chat-starter

    Hi Sir Humphrey,

    Thanks very much for your reply!

    The thing is, the Strata is only considering replacing current old single-pane windows with more modern single-pane windows. Since double-glazing is way more expensive, I doubt they would take on my research/suggestion as suitable for the whole building. This is why I am trying to find out what the deal is if I go solo and only upgrade my Unit’s windows.

    Thanks for the extra information about thermal insulation. Its definitely worth considering.

     

     

     

     

    #50243
    Sir HumphreySir Humphrey
    Strataguru

    Perhaps the best way to resolve those issues is to research double glazed windows and then present a proposal to the committee. If road noise is a bother to you, it probably is to other residents too. If window replacement is already under consideration, why not offer to do the leg-work to find out what would be best, get quotes etc. The committee might be very grateful to have someone take a task off their hands. This way, you can make sure a good option gets proposed to the owners and that you have the committee’s backing.

    Note that double glazing just for noise, only needs a narrow gap of a few mm between the sheets of glass and the framing does not need a thermal break. I would go the extra step of making sure the double glazing is worthwhile thermally as well. For good thermal insulation, you need frames that don’t ‘short circuit’ the panes by conducting heat through the frames. You also need a gap ideally of about 12-15mm, 8mm at a minimum.

    Good thermal double glazing will help keep the heat out in summer as well as the heat in in winter.

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